The problems are basic (edited post)

Community General Discussion
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So, basically what i want is to raid on 2-3 charaters and maybe do keys on more without having to grind/farm other content since that takes a lot of time.

I like to tank and i like to play different styles, others may like to play only one character, but i don’t. This is not about me, it’s about different goals and approaches to the game.

Having the best possible chance of success by acquiring the best available power is something normal in RPGs. What i believe is different aspects of the game should be their own progression so no one feels they have to do content they don’t like to be the most effective in what they do.
Anyone can argue i don’t need to do everything, but i feel i need because everything increases my power in some way.

I hope this is more understandable. Again this is not really a “i want” even though i use the word.

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At least you warned us in the title of the thread. Thanks.

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Chief… ngl i don’t even wanna give it a quick skim through

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Brevity is the soul of wit.

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I don’t think is cater for people who play the entire day.
But it is cater for people that only play WoW, and it should be that way.

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That’s what i mean. The fact that’s the game is ok for one does not mean it’s good for everyone. If the game was really meant for people who enjoy it then it would be made for several kinds of players independently and not just some that do some content and feel it’s enough.

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Way too much conjecture about what other people do and want, so let’s simplify it. What do you want? What would a custom version of WoW developed just for you look like?

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This really needs a tldr.
Not to ignore the body of text.
But to know what it says before reading.

This could say the problems in wow are that cloth gear exists and I wouldn’t know without reading lots

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I didn’t feel this way a few months ago, thru BoD, but then 8.2 hit and I decided I wanted to try to switch mains. I still needed to unlock flying and my prior main had all the progress so I felt I needed to do that grind first… but still needed to level and grind out gear, azerite and now essences on the new one.

Ended up frustrating me wildly and I sat this raid out because there was too much to do with too little time for me to log. I burnt out trying to do both.

So I’m somewhere in the middle. I actually find the grinds somewhat rewarding and certainly don’t mind putting effort to level up - but I found switching toons mid-expansion to be to punishing, simply because of the wide number of things that need to be ground out on a per-character basis.

A class change option would have satisfied me entirely.

What you are describing OP is taking the whole game and making it 5 mini-games where they don’t relate to each other. I really don’t like that idea.

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Nope,it does not cater to players who play the entire day.

Those players have one difficulty setting made for them, thats it one. The content isn’t even exclusive for them :rofl:

They spend most of their time preparing for it outside the game and in it because their commitments makes everything mandatory for them . Its a peer group issue , a guild issue, not a dev issue.

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It does not matter, i don’t want the game made for me… That would trash the whole point.

I think the point is not clear, but as it is now i don’t have the energy to simplify it, i have to go out and grind gear/AP/Resources/Essences/Gold/Reputations.

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Kinda disappointed. The title said Long Post, so I came to inspect. Ive seen much longer :frowning:

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I don’t have a problem with long posts, I have a problem with poor sentence and paragraph structure that makes things more difficult to read then necessary.

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WoW has 2 big issues, that even if they’re ignored or pretended to not exist, it’s a fact. The clear example of this is Classic and how a lot of people praise it for being superior even though it’s a 15 year old version of the game.

I’m going to use myself as example here.

First is the fact that i have to do everything in order to do everything. Let me explain. Currently as the game is designed all parts of progress are connected, which means if i want to make my character better, i have to take part in every piece of content available. Even though one could argue it’s not necessary, it’s still enticing. When you’re presented with an opportunity to become better, what would you do? I for one wouldn’t say, “nah, it’s gonna take too much effort so i’m just gonna go and do nothing." Character progress as it’s currently implemented in the game feels like an eternal carrot dangling in front of me. When I stretch enough so that i grab it, a new more delicious looking one appears in it’s place. Even though the previous one was not as tasty as it looked, there’s a voice telling me the new one will be good.

Before the current state of the game, WoW had 2 simple progressions: gear and gold with either one being a means to get the other but completely independent. This is the reason I miss JP and VP, they were a simple means of acquiring elements like those in case I had bad luck. Now there’s gear, gold, AP, resources, professions, essences, reputation and ratings, all working connected in a web of progression to make your character the best it can be. That’s the main point, “the best it can be." Anyone can argue it’s not “needed," but that’s just it: one does not play a game for needs, one plays a game for enjoyment in what one likes.

The second problem I see is a simple misconception of what enjoyment is. Everyone enjoys things in a different way. Sometimes groups of people will have similar goals of what to do and that’s how guilds, communities, and friend groups form, so they can tackle whatever content they want together. WoW is after all a social cooperative game. The problem starts when those goals require several other goals that may not be enjoyable. This is tied strongly to the first point where one has to do all other content to have the best chance to succeed in whatever is the main goal.

Raiders having to do Island Expeditions for AP, PvPers having to do emissaries for resources, crafters having to do quests for rep, and PvPers for marks to buy recipes. Those are just some examples, the reality can be so much more, or even less, but that does not invalidate the point: that even though some people enjoy what’s available (there’s no way to know how many) there are several to a lot of others that are not enjoying the game as it is.

It is my opinion that a lot of these issues started when lots of vocal players complained that there was nothing to do in the game other than “what I do," and it’s really funny how now those same people are the ones complaining that they have to do all this extra stuff outside of their goals. Again, going back to the argument it’s “not needed” does not invalidate the point because even if it’s not, it’s still a form of improving and progressing the characters quicker, which everyone does want if they tackle any kind of progression content in the game. If i raid i want the best possible gear and abilities to do it, same for PvP, that’s just how RPGs or any combat game works. I think the kind of players that are honestly enjoying the game right now are the ones that do very little content and simply don’t care if their character is strong or not. That’s fine, but it does not take away from the problem in the game right now. There will always be people who complain about others and what they do because, “the grass is always greener on the other side."

Going all the way back to the beggining about how Classic is praised, my opinion is this: Classic is like a stair, that each step has something enjoyable or entertaining, like getting a piece of gear or a new skill. When you reach the top you can stand there proud and accomplished, but you can also stop at any step to rest a little and enjoy what you got in that step. Retail is like a room with a door at the end that has locks, and each lock is unlocked by a key that’s on the top of a different rope inside the room. After climbing each rope, getting the key, going back down and getting to another rope, you finally get to the door and unlock it only to find another room with a locked door and a new set of ropes. This is my opinion. Twist it, turn it or whatever but the point still stands. The game is designed to spend a lot of time daily instead of during it’s cycle to improve success in whatever goal I seek to accomplish.

The reason i wanted to express this is, after logging on the PTR yesterday I just blew. I checked the available new content, and i must say, “hell no!” If it was just that new content, just as it always has been when a new patch came out, it would have been perfect, just like it was in previous expansions. But once i realized I have the new content, emissaries, expeditions, keystone, raiding, and farming mats: it is simply too much, and at this point, i wonder what happened to “graduate from content."

I remember in Legion when 7.3 came out and it was enough to do only Argus. But this time, instead of replacing, every new piece of content is added on top of the previous one. This is even more an issue when people have alts. Even though there’s the argument one does not need alts to play the game, does it honestly invalidate the point? Again this is not about needs, a game is and should always be about what each one enjoys. I believe it’s fair to say that i should be able to enjoy playing the game the way I want. As it stands right now, I may not keep playing the next patch. Unless something extraordinary is announced at Blizzcon, I might drop WoW completely, and that would be sad after all the time I spent here.

In conclusion, each person is an individual and can find joy and satisfaction in different things. A great game is one that acknowledges that and offers different options for at least most consumers. The other option is to cater to a niche of players, and if WoW is meant for people who play only WoW the entire day, then ok, ignore everything i said.

Now troll/slam/rant away at me, HAHAHA.

There, I cleaned it up quite a bit. I’m sure others could do better but I didn’t feel like spending a huge amount of time on it lol.

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The ap grind is really the only 1 I wish were removed. Gear is kind of the backbone to the game, rep has a very short lifespan, resources are only good for the mission table which is not needed in any way, gold is easy (or cheap), and essences are like rep. If the ap grind were removed and hoa slots/azerite traits simply unlocked from the start the game would be much improved.

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I did. I thought the structural organization was going to be the hard part, but the “example” left me so confused I stopped reading. Way too much said when I have no idea what’s being talked about.

I stopped reading. Sorry, OP. If you want me to understand, make it easy. State the issue first thing and go off after.

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TL;DR – the game is being developed by lottery-winning random niches of players who have been vocal on the forums and the game has been suffering for it by forcing people who don’t want to do everything to do everything.

tbf, ActiBlizz might not even be driving the game the way that those vocal minority are wanting (as evident by your own statement that those people are now complaining about too much to do or something akin to that); instead, they might be building the game SOLELY for themselves.

Whether it’s for money or bragging rights or just so they can play it themselves.

Hell, if “I” made a game, I’d make a game that “I” would want to play and no one else. For all I know, I’d probably be the only one to play it and I’d be happy.

But if “others” found out about the game, I wouldn’t know how to feel. It might be the biggest laughing stock of the century OR it could be the next big thing since sliced bread – and that kinda thing scares me; not knowing how it’ll get received.

Regardless, I went off on a tangent, the point still stands that we do not know ActiBlizz’s design logic or reasoning. For all we know, they’re being force-fed instructions to do all of this just as much as they’re force-feeding us all the content we “have” to do. We don’t know. But here’s what we DO know and you’ve said it yourself.

Everyone enjoys different things.

So, I’m sorry, OP, but having a game to please “EVERYBODY” is impossible. You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time – hell, you can even please some of the people some of the time; but you cannot please ALL of the people ALL of the time.

And that is essentially what you’re asking of ActiBlizz; to do the impossible.

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This.
Got lost on my way to grab this to quote it

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One’s inability to prioritize or control oneself, does not a Blizzard problem make.

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I understand what everyone’s saying, i don’t know if it’s a comprehesion problem on my part, but i can’t see others are understanding my point…

I’ll edit the post to something simple are more direct then, to something i want.