The problem with Horde vs Alliance power gains

Lore Story Forum
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One point of debate is that the Alliance commonly gets more power ups than the Horde does. I.e., the different tools Jaina has gotten as well as Turalyon and Alleria recently.

The Horde does not appear to get these.

To me it’s not that the Alliance gets more power ups, it’s that the Horde gets it in different ways to fit their culture. For instance, Vol’jin has gotten a lot stronger in BfA. There’s also, while possibly temporary, power behind the throne in Bwonsamdi. He’s very powerful. His allegiance may be fluid, but right now he still is empowering a Talanji. More directly, all of the Loa are on the Horde’s side now.

That’s a lot of power gain the Horde has gotten, it’s just that it’s not by the characters themselves as much as it’s demigods bestowing power. Or in the case of Vol’jin, powerful spirits.

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It’s about quantity as well as quality, though. What other Horde characters have been empowered (and kept their power) besides Vol’jin?

ETA: (And even Vol’jin is conjecture, since it hasn’t happened yet, although I agree that signs are pointing that way.)

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Actually forgot to mention the other point: most of the main Horde characters aren’t magic wielders.

There is no power ups Saurfang, Baine, Lorthemar, etc. could get. It wouldn’t make sense.

To answer your question: arguably Talanji now that she has Bwonsamdi. And while it probably will end horribly for the Horde, Sylvanas is getting Xal’atath.

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Yes, that kinda can be a problem to show ingame.

Cinematics, most of the time if not always focus on characters, so of course that alliance characters gets this spotlight were you say “this is stupid, why they didn’t finished the horde already?” but the horde does in fact gained a respectable amount of power, is just that… they don’t take the main focus of the narrative.

By example, the horde pretty much gained half of the broken islands while the alliance a random rock in the universe and part of a montain, i guess.

Point being,Alliance gets focus on their characters being these demigods magic users but that doesn’t mean that they are unstoppable, is just means that the horde counterparts is never represented at all. like not even some nightborne casting a magic shields to protect themselves from those arcane cannons!

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I’d actually argue that a power up for Lorthemar is very possible. As an Elf, he is probably susceptible to the “Magical Sponge” condition that Warcraft Elves are fairly unique for. I’m sure they could find a way to power him up if they wanted, they just need a source.

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TBH the Loa are pretty underwhelming. Outside of Rezan, Gonk, Pa’ku, and Bwonsamdi, the rest seem to be short on followers. They also don’t show up and aid the Zandalari in BFZ, except Bwonsamdi. The closest the others come to helping is by empowering their Loa champions, who all die.

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Even when they do (rarely) they are pretty unremarkable.

Nathanos - only human ranger. Scourged slew his slayer. Hunted by alliance, and was apparently a mini raid boss, eluded all his pursuers. Gained a "power up’ through consuming the soul of his cousin. All he has is auto attack with axes, plague pool and snide comments. Average mook hunter has more going on than this guy.

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The Horde does have characters of extreme potency, they just don’t ever get used in the narrative, or have been retired.

Thrall’s gone off to do his spiritual journey thing, though in Cataclysm he became an extreme shaman savant, rather than what he normally was.

Drek’thar is old and frail, but he’s still a farseer. Being able to follow an enemy should be a huge boon.

Grand Magister Rommath is a man with many years and many lessons under his belt. He just doesn’t get used. Him being able to fling out fire storms and summons phoenixes on a whim would even the odds against any magical character.

First Arcanist Thalyssra is also a huge and prominent magi. She’s been doing this for centuries. She doesn’t get used either. There’s also those under her employ who are exceptional in their work, such as Occuleth and Vlatrois.

Nathanos, while not magical, is a marksman and a skilled woodsman. If Warcraft applied to the rule of one, he’d be a capable assassin for any would-be powerhouses, like Malfurion, or Jaina.

Sylvanas, while currently a Warchief who is soon to turn into a raid boss, is a banshee with the ability to raise the dead. She’s also an experienced general.

As for the Horde, it has plenty of units to even the odds on the battlefield, they just aren’t used either.

The core races have shamanism and have been entrenched in it for longer than any of the newer Alliance races have. It’s familiar territory for them.

The core races also have wyvern riders, venomous winged monsters. They’re a good equalizer to gryphons and hippogryphs.

The Forsaken, of course, has the blight, an airborn poison. Chemical warfare is a no-no in the modern day for how lethal and indiscriminate it is. Just the same, the Forsaken used to be members of the living themselves, it’s fairly plausible that them and the Alliance still have the same understanding of formation battles.

The Blood Elves, while not a heavily populated race, are masters of the arcane.

The Tauren can excel in just about everything they want to do. They’re massive bull men that’re 12 feet tall and packed to the brim with muscle. They could carry long lances and outreach any enemy on the field. Their habit of using those battle totems as a bludgeon is also a boon, as it can overcome any man-held defense, no matter how much they hunker down into that shield. The implications of their physique make them a wonder.

The Goblins make technologies to equalize with the Gnomes & Dwarves. Their technology is by no means pretty and looks as if it were prone to an explode, but function over fashion.

Trolls are also tall, long armed and would make exceptional pikemen.

This isn’t to say the Alliance is inferior by any means, it’s moreso the advantages the Horde has on their side that stops the Alliance from bowling them over in any field fight.

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ME
:muscle:

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Blame the writers for failing to utilize story assets or failure to extrapolate on feats.

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The issue is that whatever the Horde gets, it gets downplayed by what the Alliance gets or has by significant margins. Also the other fact being what the Horde has enforces a villain narrative.

In BC the Horde gets the powerful blood elves, but that is downplayed by the vastly superior race of Draenei. Which the story retconned the Burning Legion from mystic demons into roided angry aliens, and the Draenei were chosen as the Eredar, the best of the best of the burning legion. This leads up to Legion where the Alliance gain the Vindicaar where for terrible plot reasons is removed from the war. Even though the Vindicaar could easily turn the tides. Want a hole through Undercity? Why need Jaina when you could use the space ship that did the samething to the much more advanced and hardened Antorus. That ship alone out paces any Horde tech, including Black Fuse tech.

While on the subject of Blood Elves, the Horde didn’t even get Kael’thas. We very much needed a powerful Arcane caster to become the Yang to Jaina’s Yin. We had to wait until BFA to finally get an Arcane caster in the form of Thalyssra, and what’s the first thing she does for the Horde? Gets overshadowed and looking pathetic to Jaina. Imagine if we had Kael’thas in that situation. He would be all like “you guys go on ahead … this is a long time comming since Dalaran.” Instead of running away from Jaina, we’re running away from the epic mage battle of fire and ice. Kael’thas is then forced to retreat at the end because he’s in Stormwind.

The only thing we have better is warriors, which makes us have a better army. We have Saurfang and Baine that can train our troops to become stronger than the Alliance’s. Fun fact too being that Varian the only Alliance warrior over shadowed every other warrior not named Garrosh, they were basically even then was and is considered the best usually. So then this makes our army theoretically outnumber and out power the Alliance. Well that ironically enforces our rules as Villains some more. Sylvanas is our only powerful character who is the only one capable of facing the Alliance heroes, who also happens to be evil. This makes the Horde into the evil, bigger army with the evil final boss Sylvanas. Now the heroic Alliance have to cleave through the army and Sylvanas’ weaker generals to defeat her and win the game. Dazar’alor being the example that Jaina leads a heroic group to defeat one of the generals.

TL;DR whatever power and tools the Horde gets is downplayed by the Alliance. Whatever the Horde specializes in, like a better army, ironically villain bats us. Since Sylvanas is the only person who can damage the Alliance and is our evil warchief, enforcing the evil final boss of the game trope.

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I am not sure Nathanos counts as a “power up” so much as a restoration of what he once was. He didn’t gain anything he didn’t already have at one point.

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He’s a super-juiced undead. It’s clear that DKs receive a power up of sorts when they’re turned, and what Nathanos underwent recently wasn’t far from that. It isn’t unreasonable to assume he is more powerful now than he was as a human (that’s assuming he peaked skill-wise back then, too)

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Wasn’t it kind of far from that though? Since the Valks no longer have the Lich Kings power to feed off of. I mostly feel it wasn’t a power up because it’s framed as restoration and decay prevention by Sylvanas. If he did get a power up was it anything more than just physical strength? I mean he has the ability to feel certain emotions now but I’d mark that down as irrelevant.

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I don’t really see the main issue here. The Alliance might gain all kinds of power ups, but they never USE them. Meanwhile the Horde gets a power up and immediately puts it to use. Sylvanas with her Blight and Val’kyr, the Blood Elves fielding Blood Golems once they got the Animus from Throne of Thunder, etc…

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He has? I’m pretty sure he’s still dead and has not shown any power of any kind.

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Zalazane mentions he’s much more powerful. It’s just that as a spirit it’s hard to portray that very well.

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Scrappy underdog theme.

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The big issue is the Horde, since it’s the villain, always has to lose so while it’s actually allowed to use its fancy toys, it’s constantly losing them too. And when it isn’t losing its toys it’s being finger wagged at for using them.
(See: Abyssal Scepter, Blight, Mana bomb, that bell in MoP, goblin tech, every magical thing with its various elves)

Meanwhile, the Alliance has toys but it’s only ever allowed to use them when its to foil the Horde and then they’re quietly forgotten about because if they didn’t then the war would be over in about ten minutes.

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Not currently in the game.

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