The problem with borrowed power

Community General Discussion
1

First. I have no qualms with any of the systems in place. Many do, though, and there’s a practical reason why. Overlooking all other personal claims, by those who hate them, there is a practical reason not to like them, and it is this:

Borrowed power typical goes away at the end of an expansion, but gear carries over.

While an expansion is current, sure, borrowed power can be great fun, but when it comes time to ease into a new expansion, it’s better to have gear that is slowly replaced, rather than have your power removed prior, and go into the new expansion feeling weak all over again.

I’m enjoying the game and it’s systems, so this isn’t really an issue for me. But there’s a lot of dissent going around, with nobody really nailing the underlying issue, and I kind of wanted to boil it down to the simplest explanation.

Thanks for reading.

2

Is gear not also replaced almost instantly by quest greens and normal dungeon drops?

Edit: I don’t agree with the borrowed power system so everybody relax lol

3

Yes, but it’s a more natural transition, as opposed to loosing everything instantly. But, like I said, I don’t care either way.

1 Like
4

You said it yourself. Gear is replaced. Not removed. Also gear is replaced, because the new gear is inherently better. Thus upgraded. Another minor aspect, is with the Transmog system, you do still carry your gear over, in a form. You can always mog on that appearance.

While getting new talents and abilities, which change a spec’s rotation feels good in most cases, it is not the same as borrowed power either. The borrowed power systems implemented in Legion have, in my opinion, caused Blizzard to get stuck in a degrading design circle. They had a big hit with Artifact Weapons. There were issues with it, multi-spec’ing at the start, legendary acquisition ect. But, by and large the community liked them.

Now Blizzard keeps trying to reinvent that system. Adding more and more complex, temporary systems, that require a large amount of work to design and upkeep and patch every expac, to only throw them out at the end. Also in a way, the borrowed power systems dont really feel respectful of the time invested in them by the player. We put a lot of effort into building them up. Then they are effectively erased.

Concerning Alts, with the loot based power progression system, you simply hit level cap, and started the content gear ladder. Look at shadowlands. Which to some cases, is more friendly on alts at this point in the expansion than say legion was at the same patch point. Once you hit cap, you have your 40 renown to hammer out. There is a catch up, but it does take a bit. And you have the conduits which support this system with the soulbinds. Then you have the Torghast/Legendary grind. Depending on what you want to do with your alt, you may have to craft only 1 legendary, or if playing multiple specs, or content, you may have to craft a few. Now these systems are required to play your character fully. They enhance abilities, in a way that they are essential to the characters playsyle. Its a bit of a barrier. It is better than the AP (azerite power) or AP(artifact power) grinds of previous expacs. But it is a lot of stuff, that is just going to get removed.

And now with the Domination gear and the need to re-craft already crafted legendary items, I am pretty much benching my 3 mains. I have invested gold and time into crafting legendary items for each of their 3 specs. In addition, on say my priest, For shadow I have 1 legendary for single target, one for AoE. For Holy, I have one for raid healing, and one for M+. For Disc, I have one. And going for the best stat weights, I crafted them in the slots, which now domination gear will go in. I do not want to have to spend the gold for the blanks, and farm the soul ash, to re-make 5 legendary items for one char. So I leveled one of my LV 50’s to 60 this week, started the renown grind, and that is going to be my main for 9.1. I will craft the legendary for the non domination slot, when they alter the recipe. And I effectively shelf my 3 mains for now.

3 Likes
5

This type of system works occasionally, but not as the bread n butter core mechanics, and certainly not tied to three of the expansions major features, all of which are mandatory. That sucks.

Im ok with a non mandatory ion-style time gated treadmill, just again not as the main focus of an expansion.

SL i feel is the cumulation of everything wrong with this game, and the frame of mind the devs are under for this game is troubling.

2 Likes
6

I didnt replace my bfa gear until near or at max level this time so depends on how much ilvl gap the deva want.

Borrowed power’s problem is it goes away and there is no character progression.

The dev team then likes some of the abilities and removes others to make the new one permanent see wake of ashes.

So its always take take take so why bother investing if its gonna go away.

7

I think BFA got off to a bad start when players realized all that work, time and investment with artifact weapons was now being tossed aside for another power grind. Building up player power only to have it tossed aside to have to regrind it again gets old and tired after awhile. It’s a bad design philosophy that Blizzard needs to change. MMORPGs are suppose to be about building your character consistently, not rebuilding it expansion after expansion.

1 Like
8

This as well. We accumulate these abilities and powers through an expac. Then they are taken away, only to have us go through, in many cases, a new system grind to get them back again.

We are work for things. Then have them taken away. Then have to work for the same things over again.

1 Like
9

I don’t know if it’s that simple. They can’t just keep adding spells either. I’d like the experience to be a bit less jarring though. Leveling 50-60 in SL felt really bad lol.

10

What i dont understand, is why the developers are insistant in retaining dated concepts like “we need to have them level up 10 times every expansion” like anyone really cares about the 10 levels and it causes so many long term issues. Another concept is always adding skills and such, and specs…would it be so wrong if the classes were always reworked, if they could settle on “this is a rouge” ect? I mean you already have more specs than needed roles…

Like they keep these things like it matters more than what the core gameplay is. Meanwhile people are not happy with the core gameplay and no one is saying they want to level more evey expansion.

Just make one singular levelling experience, make every new expansion its own endgame zone. Find a happy place for classes and keep them there.

Make the game about the content not the reward treadmill cycle.

11

I think the issue with our power isn’t that we will lose it but rather how not personal it is.

1 Like
12

Yeah…but I guess the leveling experience helps move the story along and get you out into the new zones. I’m not sure that you can really get around that part.

13

It’s a catch 22 though. If they continue to add abilities and keep them then classes have massive ability bloat and balance becomes even more screwed than it currently is. If they don’t add abilities then people lose their minds about no new content being added.

The middle ground is the borrowed power system. Honestly there is no right answer

14

So now this would be a better place for one of ions systems but i dont think there actually is any real benefit for piling on an extra 10 levels that will stay until they squish again, meanwhile the content for it will never be used past that expansion, so why have the levels, something wholly meaningless in todays wow…why even retain that system, considering all the problems it causes.

I dont think anyone would notice if they just had some kinda collectable system for exploring new zones rather than ten levels…

15

Hey josh community manager, please say this to the team:

nobody likes borrowed poser, wanna keep the people playing? do real systems that remain in the game! intead of flops that last 2 years, player, housing, incentive to have the heartstone in old zones, incentives to dungeon help low players, guild housing, the farm, an animal farm too(?), anythign that REAAAAALY sticks, not a nice temporal power with a FOMO cute visual extra that we will not use after the expansion goes (talking to you bfa).

Game is bleeding players with this bs seasonal way, every season people are not coming back because its the same game with the same features “dungeons, raid, and pvp” wasted world unused,blizzard is relying in “they will go back” they will not, the competiong in the MMO space its catching up.