First off, I’d like to say that I apologize if I have been overly negative in my posting recently. The recent interviews that were released has left me in a worse mood when discussing these things, seems that they are still oblivious to most of the problems people have.
I think most of you here know that the Horde storyline has been struggling to give any motivation for its players whatsoever during this expansion. This thread is primarily aimed at coming up with ideas that could be implemented to attempt to solve this problem.
Part of the reason I am making this thread is because I am having a very hard time coming up with any way that this could be fixed on my own. The obvious idea would be for the alliance to commit some sort of atrocity, but I don’t know how you would sell that for it to work.
With every interview that has come out recently, it still seems like they aren’t fully grasping the problem that has been created. I hope they plan some turnaround to this as soon as possible, however, and we may be able to come up with some solid ideas how that may happen.
EDIT: to give my own idea, I can only come up with two solid ways to give the horde back any motivation, and both could cause problems in overall story.
Those two ways are either the alliance commits an atrocity at least on the scale of Teldrassil, if not worse, or it is discovered that what the horde did was not actually as bad as it was initially sold, and some better reason for the war is discovered with that information.
Now both of these ideas are not very good for the overall story, which is part of why I am interested to hear what others think.
I’m not sure the issue is one of the Alliance not having done anything worthy of the war so much as it is Blizz just forgetting or ignoring that they have.
They just assumed we’d go along with any war at all with no need for motivation when WoW’s story got us invested during vanilla when each side saw the others as aggressors.
When we pointed out that Genn was an aggressor in Legion, they threw us a bone and gave us a line to give to Saurfang. But it seems to me the issue is it’s just not a priority for Blizz to see things from the Horde POV beyond “give them a common enemy while it happens.” But that common enemy is our WC. Again… While the advertisments that coaxed our money out of our pockets was Sylvanas and Saurfang presenting a united front in the face of an amassing Alliance army.
I would have ample motivation if the Horde were united.
There is a theme in the Horde that was an is extremely subtle, just implied by the “Horde is family” mantra. The idea that we protect our own, no matter what.
So, Sylvanas may be an evil, diabolical banshee, but she’s our evil, diabolical banshee. And she’s a member of the family, so we protect her.
That idea has been abandoned, but it would have given me enough reason, if Saurfang stood by Sylvanas and they came to respect each other as was teased in A Good War.
Honestly, I’ve seen the “Atrocity” angle thrown around a lot … and I’m never thrilled with that sort of “keep it even” writing trope (the expectation of it bogs down any chance of even semi-competent writing). Worse, unless the Alliance arbitrarily hits someplace like Suramar, Thunder Totem, Thunder Bluff, or Quel’thalas (the capitals of one of the groups LEAST associated with Teldrassil) … its going to come off as at least somewhat justified after Teldrassil.
Beyond that … I’m not overly convinced the “Horde” is meant to feel super motivated in this war (despite what the BfA advertising would have you believe). Regardless of her reasons, this conflict feels more like “Sylvanas’ War” over the “Horde’s War” for a number of reasons. SHE has motives for this war; SHE has “true objectives” beyond those she used to convince Saurfang into it; SHE is the one that wanted it the most … for what reason, we don’t know?
Though if I were to hazard a guess it has something to with her “New Era” she taunts the Alliance PC with while in Hel (she doesn’t mention that “Era” at ALL to the Horde PC).
Families sometimes have to cut loose one of their own. Love is nice and all, but if someone is causing too much trouble and heartbreak, you have to let them go both for your sake, and for everyone else’s.
I wish Blizz can give Horde players any kind of motivation to fight the Alliance besides we are red they are blue, concept, but its clear that they struggle at this because for them to antagonize the Alliance is a sacrilege, they have to stay “pure, loving, peace seekers” all times. At the end this lack of motivation hurts both factions.
The only thing that I can come up with is major Horde leader’s death other than Gally and Sylv. You name it Lorthemar, Baine, Rexxar, even Saurfang. It’s the only thing that can motivate most of Horde players…
If they didnt intend for the Horde or it’s players to feel any motivation in this war, they did more than just lie in advertising. If blizzard intentionally misled everyone about what the point of this expansion was supposed to be, that is damning, in my opinion.
The story they wrote simply does not make any sense to have in a game like this. It is not enjoyable, and fundamentally destructive. If they planned for the Horde to not have any desire or motivation within their story, that is awful.
“Motivation” comes in many forms. Personally, I’ve been more forgiving of this storyline because it will for certain deal with the Sylvie issue (which even before she was Warchief, she was an issue that would eventually need to be dealt with); AND I’m hoping it will put to bed the Horde identity issue (which we’ve never really had a chance to deal with after Garrosh ripped us to pieces in Cata & MoP).
My motivation comes in the form of seeing the Horde finally figure out what it wants to be; rather than two completely separate entities (the Horde of WC2 or the Horde of WC3). My motivation comes in the introduction of new races to the Horde (which, I’ll admit the intro for both the Zandalari AND Mag’har has really pleased me). Though, I never had much motivation for the Faction War … so my motivation also comes in the END of such a conflict.
Yeah, we did it … but there wasn’t anything conclusive with it afterwards. The Horde was never really given a chance to heal from the wounds that Garrosh inflicted; most notably between the core races. Vol’jin was a chance, that did not bear fruit … Sylvanas in contrast should be re-opening those injuries.
Unlike the first Civil War, I do get the feeling that there won’t be much in the way of allies for Sylvie when the hammer comes down on her (and I don’t think she’ll allow herself to die for a position she never wanted). The final scene in her Warmongers is likely symbolically accurate, its Sylvie standing alone … even Nathanos no longer is by her side.
The only issue I have with this is that even if you agree with Garrosh’s ideas if you aren’t an orc/goblin you are not going to be part of his Horde.
Now on the other side if you are on Team Sylvanas doesn’t matter which race you are, you can be on her side.
But overall, yeah I hate this MoP 2.0 storyline…
Honestly, even without it being a rehash this war has been worse than the last one, imo. At least in the previous faction war it felt like you could have some reason or motivation to fight. There is nothing in this one.
I don’t see how that’s relevant.
Its the Horde having internal problems, it has nothing to do with the Alliance doing something competent in stopping the Horde or causing massive casualties.
For example if the Horde conquers Ashenvale in huge quest line and then burns down Teldrassil and the Horde cost is:
“This is wrong! It you went too far Sylvanas! But we are going to follow you anyway.”
Alliance on the other hand…
Darkshore: 2 god powered characters manage to kill 1 Val’kyr but Night Elves along with Sira and Deralyn join the Horde.
Lordaeron: Alliance attacks, massive losses and the attack fails until Jaina pops out of nowhere. Proceed with Alliance forces getting plagued inside Lordaeron with NPC telling us the losses were incredible.
There is a prison break, alliance capital in flames and the rest of the fleet is destroyed by Zandalari
Dazar’alor: Alliance attack Zandalari. Achieves victory.
But Horde arrives to the rescue, the Alliance retreats, Goblin leader is defeated and on the Brink of death. Jaina is also wounded by attacking the Horde after this battle makes us as bad as Horde… for some reason.
Yeah.
Every Alliance victory has a cost just so Horde players don’t feel too bad about it I guess.
If the Alliance were to attack a major Horde city I think that would do it. No one needs to die, just have a Silvermoon or Barrens warfront and there’s all the motivation you need.
Up until now, the Alliance has not engaged in a war of pure aggression. They aren’t even really trying to militarily defeat the Horde. It’s more “let’s find a way to kill Sylvanas”. If they attack Thunder Bluff or Silvermoon specifically though, (and Silvermoon would be quite juicy) that would be expanding their goals beyond regicide to fighting for aggressive political change.
I think “High Elves trying to conquer Silvermoon with Alliance forces” is plenty to motivate the Horde players. You’re not fighting for a controversial warchief, you’re fighting for your identity.