We are now at the point in game where most of the good players are pushing 15s and 16s and the less then average players are pushing 10s to 12s.
My issue is that with people getting over geared, rats get into keys they don’t belong into way more often, seeing someone at 2600io lets say 2 weeks ago, you could be sure they would know their stuff, would interrupt and use their defensive/offensive cooldowns at the right time ensuring a smooth run for the group, now it’s not rare to invite players at that level only to play like complete potato making the experience a complete misery for everyone involved and more importantly a failed key/less crests reward.
Basically over time pushing/farming high keys feels very bad and create situations where party leaders might wait for OVERLY qualified players to invite to their groups leaving the people with less IO but that actually deserve to be there to be refused in MANY groups.
The alternative you get the party leader that is so desperate to find a tank/healer that he instantly invite anyone that dare apply to his key and sometimes it work out just find and you have a good key, other times its hell and you have 20 deaths before the first boss.
To conclude I am not too sure if I am the only one feeling this way and this is meant in no way to feel elitist but has the season progress it feel way less interesting to push because of this issue of people getting over geared and sneaking into groups they shouldn’t be in. there is also the issue of people paying for carries to have fake IOs…
I am not even sure if it’s worth fixing or just how things are supposed to be.
Cheers and sorry for the rant
People have different goals for different reasons. I don’t think someone who only is going for 2500 is a bad player. Maybe that’s all they want. Weird assumption.
This text is in no way implying that a 2500 io player in general is bad, just that with time, people that didn’t deserve that io get push into those range and make the social value of being at that IO less attractive.
This will always be a pug issue, unfortunately. Rating/ilevel offers no context and you have no idea who got carried and slowly failed upwards, who makes it through fights solely off battlerezzes, who paid for boosts. I’ve had players in 13s who act and talk in chat like they’ve never seen these bosses before which makes me think boosting is sadly endemic.
Should also check that they gained their rating on the same spec/role and didn’t swap from DPS → Tank five minutes ago. I’ve noticed several tanks who did that who underpulled or died miserably, thankfully not with my keys.
You are correct, and players invented systems to filter the bads from the goods like raider IO and another system by archon I heard that give you a rating on how you interrupts and performs in other areas but with those come the price that a lot of people that could be good for the keys also get tossed aside because their profile doesn’t show any experience and I am not sure if it’s a necessary evil that we should continue to live with.
The more that players invents systems like this the less and less that newcomers want to get involved with the M+ system or can, and we get less players to Q with it seem.
There’s a solution roughly 20% of M+ players (Namely the elites here on the forums) would hate. And that’s changing how groups are formed.
No longer can the group lead choose who they invite. Instead all they can do is list a key with restrictions on roles and ilvl and wait for others to join. It’s what FF14 does and it works for the most part.
Sure by all means, list your +10 requiring 660 ilvl and 2.5k io. You’ll take way longer to fill than a group with realistic expectations.
Blizz hasn’t considered it an option yet. I highly doubt they will any time soon. Way too many players would rage.
I have also heard of some players trying to push for a solo Q systems, in both ways I am not too sure they would work well in World of warcraft, every issue that I have spoke about isn’t a gear related problem but more of a knowledge problem about concepts.
Take for example CCs and interrupts, the game is MISERABLE at teaching you theses mechanic or how to improve, What is the difference between a stop and a real interrupt, Line of sight usage to interrupt casts.
There is so many spells nowadays casted by mobs that I can’t even blame anyone for not knowing witch ones are SUPER IMPORTANT to interrupts and those that are just fillers that tickles, how anyone play high keys without a Plater Profile with Color coded like the one that the streamer Quarzi offer is beyond me and this is a problem with Blizzard UI.
If you aren’t watching and searching for routes for the dungeons and have addons like MDT you are missing out on so many information’s that the game isn’t teaching you.
One way Blizz could help would be to revive the Proving ground and revitalize it to initiate players to theses concepts but at the moment nothing does, you either learn by yourself with external websites or players that are nice enough to make you understand what went wrong if you are even willing to listen…
While Blizzard could certainly help teach players, one of the core issues with M+ is what it demands from you as an individual. Your average gamer can’t meet the demand without DBM barking in their ear, Hekili flashing them buttons, and a raid lead filling in the gaps.
The problem with M+ is our randoms can trip their way up into +10’s whereas in a game like League they’ll never leave bronze (Or copper or whatever it is) . League game forces them to be better. WoW allows them to be carried.
Some sort of MMR system might help. Unfortunately, WoW’s “gear” aspect of things throws a big wrench in that.
The reason for that is the PvP factor though. A carry in a 5v5 PvP match essentially makes it 4v5. Maybe if every M+ run was paired with another run and they competed for a leaderboard spot based on time? Idk what the way to solve that would be though.
I’m sure there’s some logistics Blizzard could come up with. Except we both know they won’t lol.
We’re kind of stuck with what we have. I’ll gladly theory craft all day but we all know Blizzard (And to some degree “certain players”) will never consider changing it until their $$ is affected.
A PUG is a PUG. Anyone who pays their subscription can play. Keep in mind that without the subscription money from “terrible players who don’t know how to use interrupts” there would not be enough subscription money to keep the lights on.
Two solutions to help this: basically add the wowop.io after dungeon leaderboard to the game, showing relative performance on damage, interrupts etc. Also obviously Blizzard should adjust the enemy name plates to be more like the Quazii plater profile, or add visual and audible telegraphs to critical enemy casts. Almost every game there is telegraphs deadly enemy abilities these days, no reason you should even have to keep your eyes glued to enemy name plates for all the actual information you need about what’s going on in the game.
Since a lot of routes and “tech” is stuff that players come up with or discover independently, it would be hard for Blizzard to teach this to players in any way, but an M+ “lab” or follower dungeon would be great for testing stuff out and practicing routes.
Players are going for io mostly for the mounts and stuff. 10s are all we need to fill up a vault. Anything above that stuff is really about social value, there isn’t anything else to it.
I agree with everything you said and you wrote it really well, but this is making me wonder if blizzard is over time making the game too unforgiving for the average gamer, like everything we said so far is true and it cause MANY players to have real bad experiences making them leave the game, I lost so many IRL friends that left simply cause they felt that they can’t play the game anymore, they used to enjoy dungeons/raids and overtime they just slowly stop getting involved with theses because of them getting hit in the face by how hard the game has gotten.
it also mean that if I actually want to play at a level that interest me and feel like progress I can’t enjoy it anymore with friends that can no longer follow at that level, it force me to play with pugs constantly and make me wonder why I am pushing in the first place.
Like this season I pushed to 3k ONLY for the achieve and mount and have NO interest to to go further specially with how toxic that pushing Higher has gotten.
It’s a miserable cycle of waiting 30Min+ if LUCKY before and invite to then have many groups scatter in the first 1min of the key cause a pull was failed and now with their new affix with 15sec deaths key is probably bricked so people leave instantly.
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