The New Guild UI, Permissions...yikes!

This is the first post on our thread which is now 100 pages long. but unfortunately has been infiltrated by the usual forum denizens and simple trolls:

07/17/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Osiris
Whose bright idea was to lump all these permissions under a single check box?

    > New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
    > Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png

Now to give someone access to officer chat, or give them the ability to set their own public note, I have to give them the ability to delete people's messages, calendar events, notes, gmotd, kick people from voice chat, etc.

Thanks for taking more control away from the players....in favor for watered down solutions.

[Edit] For those not aware - you were previously able to control all these things individually, per rank. Feel free to vote on the question by giving it a like for Thursday's Q&A here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765747093#post-19


https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1#detail
This is the reason we are now posting here:

10/08/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Itzali
I'm a part of WoW QA, we usually check the bug forums. Things listed in General are checked by community. Many of these may currently be researched but large threads are how to manage. If you have a specific topic you're passionate about I suggest breaking them up into separate threads.

I will forward this on to them for visibility.

[/quote]

This message was sent in direct response to my post on this thread:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769696779?page=1#detail

Thanks for your attention to our concerns! We look forward to working together to provide feedback regarding the Guild UI and its functionalities!
I don't like the BfA guild UI even without this issue. If it was changed to make it better, i might be more accepting.

There is no part of the UI that is better, so it was a change for changes sake, IMO
As stated numerous times in the original post, guild rank permissions must be reverted to their former functionality in order to facilitate the desired officer rank structure of our guild. This is currently impossible with the new UI.

Devs: Please refer to the thread linked in the OP for details on why the current implementation is untenable.
I know a 90 page thread is daunting. For a good TLDR, check out Fumel's post history. He's been doing a daily re-read of the thread and reposting contructive feedback. Quote below for link purposes.

10/06/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Fumel
I've generally been doing only one of these "blast from the past" posts a day (bringing up posts from earlier in this thread) but this one from page 32 has too many great ideas for me to wait until tomorrow:

07/27/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Carthorinn
And also I see several people complaining about the extension not being an answer. Giving the one blizzard rep that has commented so far a hard time is not exactly appealing and it needs to stop before this thread becomes toxic. Lets keep moving forwards instead of backwards.

I personally would like to see the Rank permissions separated from where it is and have it assignable by toon. This way we can promote people without having permissions tied to it and gives us a bit more freedom when setting up rank structure. I know this would take another massive overhaul but we need freedom with rank so we can give guildies a sense of progress within the guild.

I would also like to see the ability to make more channels for the guilds with a custom name so GM's can set up several chats for their guildies preferences. I would also like to see the incentives to run in a guild group increase for dungeons / raids. Both for the guild and it's members. It's like you killed the first boss in the raid ok guild is almost done with the reward ok you got the achievement for completing the raid ok cool. It unlocks nothing but you have a nice shiny achievement. Than thats it for 6 months till the next raid comes out and rinse and repeat. It's dull.... There is little sense of accomplishment.

I would also like to see the return of some perks the ones we have now are "OK" I guess but they just feel completely lacking. The gathering one was cool and I understand why you got rid of it to a degree but is there any way we can get a perk that SLIGHTLY increases the chances of getting soulbound mats from scrapping gear?

As far as recruiting goes. Is there anyway you can implement a change where if a request is pending and said person isn't online we it can just send them a mail with an accept invite button kinda like the guild charter? It is so hard sometimes to send someone an invite because we aren't online at the same time. Can we please get a better interface for that system too the current one is lacking utility. Like can you make it so we can inspect the player requesting look at their gear. Check their raid progress etc without having to look them up on the armory. We also need an overhaul for the looking for guild interface... It also lacks utility and does not offer good sorting options.

We need our logs extended they are too short and sometimes things get buried unless we stalk them. Can we get a check box for permissions that distinguishes if someone has the ability to move things within our tabs or not. The way it is currently if you put 20 stacks of 5 in there and said person can take out 3 items.... they combine the stacks to 20 and than take it out and it counts as 1. In the meantime this is not what intended that permission to be. Please fix it.

Also please give guild masters the option to turn off the tattle features if we have to demote someone or kick someone that is simply a matter between the GM/Officer and that person. It shouldn't be broadcasted. Also for editing the chats and deleting messages. If the GM does it it shouldn't say anything to the lower ranks. Unless you add a check box for us to allow those ranks to see them. When an officer censors a chat message it should be sent to a report to the GM. With the original message attached for review. Guild masters need more tools to keep us informed of whats going on when we aren't online. I trust all of my officers with my life but this should be a feature.
All these ideas are terrific, but I'm personally really wanting a few more guild perks back. Better incentives for guild runs is a close second for me.

Of course, recruiting changes are necessary--especially some sort of off-line invite ability. That's definitely been requested more than once in this thread (and others).
10/09/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Takoda
a 90 page thread is daunting.


It should be daunting!

It should also be MORE than enough to get the point across that there is a problem, what the problems are exactly, and what we as guild leaders would like to see done about it.

Stating a new thread is counterproductive in my opinion.

It's dividing those of us left posting for one.

Also:

Blizzard has stated more than once that it is well aware of the other 90 page thread on this topic.

Furthermore:

This is not a bug but a purposely implemented "fix" by Blizzard that has backfired.

Why in the world would Blizzard pay any more attention to a new post with few comments and little information on it then they have a 90 page thread that has existed nearly since BfA launched and has THOUSANDS of comments on it?

Why should we (those of us left still posting anyway) have to restate (repost) yet again and again (and again) on this new thread what we have already stated multiple times over the last few months on the other thread?

Other than this post, I do not intend to be moved unless absolutely forced to do so.

This "change to a new post' after all this time and all that effort on our parts is pure smoke being blown up our collective backsides.

Please, don't ask "how high?" when Blizz says jump.
10/09/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Druunah
10/09/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Takoda
a 90 page thread is daunting.


It should be daunting!

It should also be MORE than enough to get the point across that there is a problem, what the problems are exactly, and what we as guild leaders would like to see done about it.

Stating a new thread is counterproductive in my opinion.

It's dividing those of us left posting for one.

Also:

Blizzard has stated more than once that it is well aware of the other 90 page thread on this topic.


I don't disagree with you. It is horrible customer service, and I suspect it's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. That's why I suggested a way that someone from Blizzard who is new to the topic could get up to speed in a relatively time efficient manner.

Fumel has done an excellent job (in my opinion) of highlighting the best parts of our thread. If his work can help us get a faster resolution, then let's go for it.
10/09/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Druunah
This is not a bug
This.

I don't believe our issue belongs in the bug forums. If Blizzard feels otherwise, they can always move the thread (they've done it to other threads I've participated in).

I, for one, am going to continue my read-through and quoting highlights in the main thread. There are a lot of good ideas in that thread that deserve extra attention. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1
Per Blue instructions, posting BUG here.

The Guild UI is broken (intentionally, by Blizzard, as an, "improvement,").
Guild Masters no longer have granular control over their ranks and permissions.
Supporting evidence can be found here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1

All 89 pages (and counting) of it.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=89

A direct response in that thread would go a long way...
I came to this post hoping it might warrant a response, but after posting numerous times on the other threat, Im not sure if it is beneficial to get a response here. The other 90 page forum thread would be mighty angry.
10/09/2018 01:52 PMPosted by Fumel
There are a lot of good ideas in that thread that deserve extra attention.


^^This^^

We need to stay focused on one thread.

In my humble opinion, there is far to much information, to many complaints, solutions, ideas, guild stories, and even touching human emotion involved on the main thread to attempt to duplicate it here or anywhere else.

Spreading ourselves around will likely do little but thin the ranks so to speak.

If we want to get and hopefully hold Blizzard's attention, stick to where the fun kids play (we even haz songs) and help us there on the main thread.

Maybe Venjin will even bake us some cookies... ;)
Thanks all you guild leaders for your patience! Thanks also for migrating our post to where we were directed. I know we all have high hopes for a positive engagement in discussion and, of course, a resolution we can all live with.
In a Qn&A Ion said they wanted more feedback on the issue. We've already given them a 90 page thread. Just gotta keep going on the subject.
large threads are how to manage.


How about our thread that is heading for 100 pages?

They (Blizz) want a large thread, WE HAVE A HUGE ONE!

Please move yourselves back to where we are most active and have the largest thread with lots of activity: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=94#post-1870

Thank you!
10/16/2018 06:49 AMPosted by Druunah
large threads are how to manage.


How about our thread that is heading for 100 pages?

They (Blizz) want a large thread, WE HAVE A HUGE ONE!

Please move yourselves back to where we are most active and have the largest thread with lots of activity: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=94#post-1870

Thank you!


Ummm...I never asked anyone to abandon the other thread....I just stated "we are now posting here" at the behest of a CS Rep. Like in addition to bro, not abandoning the other thread...sheesh. Y'all gettin' salty all the way around...pretty sure it's not helping our cause. Or *your* cause, my bad...

We *can* do two things at one time, together and in unity. Unless you're one of those people that believes there's only *one* way, in which case, I understand. Go back to *your* thread and leave this one alone then. Yikes...
10/17/2018 04:01 PMPosted by Cheheals
We *can* do two things at one time, together and in unity. Unless you're one of those people that believes there's only *one* way, in which case, I understand. Go back to *your* thread and leave this one alone then. Yikes...


"Y'all gettin' salty all the way around"

How so?

Please don't be that guy.

I simply stated there is already a MASSIVE thread about that that almost everyone there agrees is the best way to go about this.

You stated "Thanks also for migrating our post to where we were directed."
You stated "We are now posting here"
Respectfully, that sort of sounds like giving up on the other thread to me.

Fact: For the most part, "we" are not posting here.
Fact: With all due respect, no one excepting yourself has posted here on this particular thread in 9 days as of this writing.
That's no way to get anyone's attention in my humble opinion.
Fact: Meanwhile, as of this writing, the massive thread still gets multiple posts per day and is at nearly 100 pages.

I never claimed this was a personal cause. You did. (If you read my previous posts, you'll notice i often mention the posts of others as well as the posters themselves. I in fact talk about all of our guilds as being Wow's original communities often. I also directly reference the posts and information provided by others. There is nothing "personal" here on my end beyond getting my guild fixed along with everyone else's)

To clarify. I wasn't being salty, but merely explaining the facts.
It's a rough old world friend, and facts can be hard to take.
For better or worse, almost no one seems to want to move from the massive thread.
Why? There is miles of information, suggestions, ideas, complaints, criticisms, insight, emotion, community, comradery, etc..etc.. already posted there.
Furthermore.
By "asking' us to move, Blizzard yelled "Jump!"
We said "No!"
Further, the massive thread has already caught Blizzard's sadly limited attention.
Can we afford to spread their seemingly limited attention ever further?

I in fact totally agree that we need to stick together and I have stated so multiple times (please see my past postings on the other thread)

If you check the other thread, others have attempted to make other threads regarding this issue. Sadly, they've been shot down by the Wow community as Wow players at large does not understand why this is an issue for us Guild Leaders.

In closing.

We are all in this together.
You (or anyone else for that matter) can keep posting here or wherever you'd like if you chose.

However. Keep in mind;
The massive thread is really the only one Blizzard has acknowledged so far.
The Wow community at large does not understand why our issue is an issue and likely wont be kind to smaller threads

Good luck, and please, don't take everything so personally.

Best wishes.
...and you're not trolling you just...I dunno....
07/17/2018 04:43 PMPosted by Polgara
We had 2 different levels of officers before the changes - only the GM and the GM's alts were able to edit the Guild Info and MOTD. Our setup is no longer possible. For now we have removed officer permissions from everyone until we see where this is going.

Public Notes were a very significant part of the social fabric of our guild and everyone was able to edit their own note. (Perhaps this is why when we logged in every rank was set to 'Is Officer'.) The public note helped people get to know one another.

You don't build 'communities' by removing the tools that allow improved social interaction.

Add me to the growing list of discontented customers.

I've never complained about the game before. But these changes seem arbitrary and a bit foolish.


^^ This
07/17/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Cashpocket
I Co-GM my guild, I personally find depth within customization a key part of any RPG let alone an MMORPG. To the person/people at blizzard who think changing features like this is a good idea. You need to be clear as to why you are changing these features and give a detailed list of pros and cons backing your ideals. Over the years you have brought less and less options to the players. We the communtiy have to ask why!?...

Why change the character panel to show less stats thus requiring addons like dejacharacterstats.

Why change the UI to have less options?

Why change guild permissions thus bringing less power to the GM and Co-GM?
Why make it so there can't be different ranks of officers?

You can't just change the game and expect us to roll with it. Eventually all these changes will add up and in the eyes of the players will cause a divide between the devs and the community. Your game only held on because of legion and we all know it. You haven't shown sub numbers since Mists because of this divide. Stop taking things away from players for arbitrary reasons!

Removing stats on the character panel was a massive blow.
Removing options within the menu was a massive blow.
Removing Masterlooter in guild runs was a massive blow.
Mythic+ gear swapping is a minor blow, perhaps massive to the high end players.
Changing guild permissions is another blow.

If it isn't broke don't fix it...


Many concerns...let's address them please.
I totally understand why the original thread was not extended.

Guild leaders are still looking for a little granular control for officer privileges, but since the mute rank was brought back and the /guildroster workaround is effective, I'm wondering if this issue isn't actually settled.

I never used more granular privileges for officers, I think all that may have been a matter of taste, as opposed to need. My guild is functioning as it was before the changes, especially with the fixes Blizz has already implemented.