Okay... So, I think it's time for another TLDR.
I just got done listening to the Q&A, and reading some of the responses here. Lets not bash and be constructive. I know I've participated in my fair share of "I don't like this, and **bleep** aren't listening."
The following was stated regarding this thread.
_________________________________________________________________
Question posed:
Are you going to put guild permissions back to how they were before? The current system is very restrictive and makes it harder to run a guild, which is arguably the back bone of all communities in WoW.
Note: These are not exact quotes.
Ion's Response:
So, I don't think it's arguable at all. Guilds are absolutely the back bone of communities in WoW.
We've made a couple of changes already based on feedback. Players in guilds again have the ability to edit their own public notes by default. We've added the ability to change rank permissions for guild leaders to have someone that can't speak in guild chat, if you want to have a rank that's just muted. If people are getting into an argument, or if someone's being super annoying and want a way in de-escalating that situation without kicking them from the guild, you can once again do that.
We are still listening and looking for feed back on specific things that are missing, that are helpful in running and/or moderating your guild, and we'll add functionality where possible.
The question is, why did this change at all? Why mess with something that wasn't broken?
Well, in order to make communities work and in order to make guilds work on the community infrastructure, this whole system is actually going through the battlenet back bone for battlenet groups, and the way thatâs constructed has a lot of upsides. Including: voice chat integration seamlessly, persistent chat history. So, If you log into a middle of a conversation you can see what people are talking about before you logged on.
That meant that affectively reconstructing every bit of the old guild logic on these new foundations. So, in doing that we looked at statistics and data on how often these different customizations and options were used. Many of them were used very uncommonly, and so in the interests of simplifying and stream lining the whole process, so there aren't a million checkboxes when you are looking to set up your guild permissions, we consolidated a few of those under the general umbrella category of are you an officer, this is what an officer can do.
The right way to get this changed, we are open to re-adding functionality where it makes sense. I think it's just a question of getting us feedback, helping us understand what value you were getting running your own guilds, your own communities, and we'll see what we can do.
Lore:
And one of the things we like to do. It's kind of an opportunity to do stuff like this is⌠a lot of times there's a feature or a function that people were using to accomplish something in a round about way. We can find out what was reason you needed this before⌠Oh, wait we can just give you a direct way in a feature that does just that. So, that's something we can consider as well.
Ion:
Totally.
Let us know the problems that you're having, and we'll do what we can to solve those problems.
___________________________________________________________________
Okay.... time to break this apart.
**We are still listening and looking for feed back on specific things that are missing, that are helpful in running and/or moderating your guild, and we'll add functionality where possible.**
Really? There are 67 pages of feedback. That is approximately 1,300 RESPONSES. How much more do you want? What is it you are wanting from us? I myself have added.. 3 or 4 posts of very long detailed descriptions of what I would like to see and what has affected my guild.
**The question is, why did this change at all? Why mess with something that wasn't broken?
Well, in order to make communities work and in order to make guilds work on the community infrastructure, this whole system is actually going through the battlenet back bone for battlenet groups, and the way thatâs constructed has a lot of upsides. Including: voice chat integration seamlessly, persistent chat history. So, If you log into a middle of a conversation you can see what people are talking about before you logged on.
That meant that affectively reconstructing every bit of the old guild logic on these new foundations. So, in doing that we looked at statistics and data on how often these different customizations and options were used. Many of them were used very uncommonly, and so in the interests of simplifying and stream lining the whole process, so there aren't a million checkboxes when you are looking to set up your guild permissions, we consolidated a few of those under the general umbrella category of are you an officer, this is what an officer can do.**
Thank you for clarifying this. I honestly figured this is what happened, based on how the changes to GuildSpeak and Public notes effected both Guilds and Communities alike.
I can only speculate on this, but I think the intent here is to make it so Guild and Community features may be available outside of game, in a new app. Again this is speculation, and this feature would be nice considering the old app has been retired.
Separately, I can also respect the K.I.S.S. philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid, for those that don't know). Honestly, you got the two S's backwards, because it's stupidly simple. I'm not bashing, this is just a honest truth.
"The Umbrella Of"....
Well, this is a problem. Not all guilds run under an umbrella. Not all officers and officer types fall under this umbrella. Thus the problem.
Many guilds run like a business. I've stated this before. You have the owner, managers, team/shift leads, and standard employees. You would not give the same access to a team/shift lead as you would your manager. Although some information that is given to a manager may need to be accessible to a team/shift lead, and some things as an owner you don't not want your Mangers to have free access to.
This is why the "Umbrella" that is "Is Officer" just plainly stinks, and why you have 67 pages of people asking you to delink these permissions.
Perhaps with your "Data" and the uncommonly used features are because the people that are in these roles are far less than the many in a guild?
I understand that you are now rebuilding the Guild logic from the ground up on a different system, and that means time is needed to make changes. It also means that not all changes are feasible since the new system may not allow for one aspect or another. I respect that... but for heaven's sake, when this thread got extended for the SECOND time, could this not have been told to us????
Can you not just let us know if something can or can not be done on the new system?
You have essentially told us how we can and can not run our guilds.
**The right way to get this changed, we are open to re-adding functionality where it makes sense. I think it's just a question of getting us feedback, helping us understand what value you were getting running your own guilds, your own communities, and we'll see what we can do.**
Again 67 pages. BUT if thatâs what you want, fine. I'll put up my "feedback" in a different post.
AGAIN I will outline how it is affecting my guild.
(Translation: You asked for feedback, but you are not telling us how you want this feedback, or what you want specifically feedback on.)
1 Like
This would be very helpful to know, honestly.08/23/2018 07:13 PMPosted by IranniaCan you not just let us know if something can or can not be done on the new system?
I appreciate you transcribing the Q&A response to this issue, Irannia. Good job. I confess though, the whole thing confuses me. We've been giving feedback, but Ion seems to not know this?
Yes, they did make some changes a little while ago, and I very much appreciate those changes. But we need more than just those changes. Ion ought to know this--he's a business manager. Surely not every manager at Blizzard has the same responsibilities. There is a hierarchy of reportability and accountability. Many of the larger guilds are run with a similar structure. It should be obvious that the one-size-fits-all permissions simply don't work in such a case.
I'm just...really confused now. I really thought many of the posts in this thread had made their points extremely clearly, with very specific suggestions and examples. And yet we're told to leave "feedback on specific things that are missing" as if this thread didn't even exist.
There doesnât need to be any sort of âis officerâ consolidated rank. Every rank should have the ability to be customized with any combination of permissions. This change should be completely reverted.
Also forced persistent chat is not a good thing.
Iâve said it again and again, itâs a bad idea to make guild chat into a public chat room. People who werenât online at the time something was said shouldnât be able to go back and read things. Even more so with future members.
If this had been implemented in WoW in the past I NEVER would have made the friends I have now because Iâm not going to have personable conversations in a damn public forum.
Can we please get an option to have guild chat like it was before? And have an option for multiple chat channels in guild? One could be for persists chat. Announcements, people saying theyâll be missing a raid or taking a break etc..
But the guild changes are why I didnât spend the prepatch recruiting and getting my guild up and going. I have more of my friends playing now than ever, but none of us want to be a part of a guild because of the chat changes.
Please give us the option to have multiple chat channels with OPTIONAL persistent chat. Iâve been posting this for over a month in addition to tweeting the devs. And itâs not like Iâm
the only one that feels this way..
In short: Remove âis officerâ rank consolidations, and let us have any combination of privileges for the various ranks. And give us the option for multiple chat channels with different settings for persistent chat.
Also forced persistent chat is not a good thing.
Iâve said it again and again, itâs a bad idea to make guild chat into a public chat room. People who werenât online at the time something was said shouldnât be able to go back and read things. Even more so with future members.
If this had been implemented in WoW in the past I NEVER would have made the friends I have now because Iâm not going to have personable conversations in a damn public forum.
Can we please get an option to have guild chat like it was before? And have an option for multiple chat channels in guild? One could be for persists chat. Announcements, people saying theyâll be missing a raid or taking a break etc..
But the guild changes are why I didnât spend the prepatch recruiting and getting my guild up and going. I have more of my friends playing now than ever, but none of us want to be a part of a guild because of the chat changes.
Please give us the option to have multiple chat channels with OPTIONAL persistent chat. Iâve been posting this for over a month in addition to tweeting the devs. And itâs not like Iâm
the only one that feels this way..
In short: Remove âis officerâ rank consolidations, and let us have any combination of privileges for the various ranks. And give us the option for multiple chat channels with different settings for persistent chat.
If you get any response (I doub it) it will be in this format:
Developer Q&A - Ion Hazzikostas
Ion Hazzikostas answered World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth Guild UI related questions today:
1) The team felt that the Guild UI offered too much choice;
2) They don't want players to feel they have choice;
3) Having choice is not a "fun" experience;
4) The team feels players are morons that will keep playing regardless of the changes we make, and the team will continue to dictate to them how to play the game because the team knows better what is "fun" and what is not "fun".
Welcome to World of "You will do what we tell you to do because we know what 'fun' is and you don't"
Really the same reason they removed auto grouping....apparently it was not "fun"...
Developer Q&A - Ion Hazzikostas
Ion Hazzikostas answered World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth Guild UI related questions today:
1) The team felt that the Guild UI offered too much choice;
2) They don't want players to feel they have choice;
3) Having choice is not a "fun" experience;
4) The team feels players are morons that will keep playing regardless of the changes we make, and the team will continue to dictate to them how to play the game because the team knows better what is "fun" and what is not "fun".
Welcome to World of "You will do what we tell you to do because we know what 'fun' is and you don't"
Really the same reason they removed auto grouping....apparently it was not "fun"...
1 Like
Blizz:
Our guild is structured into tiers of ranks of varying permissions based upon length of membership and level of activity. Each rank was given very specific privileges to facilitate planning of events, raids, etc. Certain members were given the ability to help moderate the guild. Others were given abilities to help facilitate bank management and recruitment. Specific ranks, had specific purposes.
And now that is all wrecked.
We had the Catalina Wine Mixer *POW!* and you changed it to brunch at Hometown Buffet.
Please fix it.
*This message has been sponsored by my wife Grahams and is brought to you by the Coalition for Guild Restoration and the Friends of Rising Sun Bronzebeard.
Our guild is structured into tiers of ranks of varying permissions based upon length of membership and level of activity. Each rank was given very specific privileges to facilitate planning of events, raids, etc. Certain members were given the ability to help moderate the guild. Others were given abilities to help facilitate bank management and recruitment. Specific ranks, had specific purposes.
And now that is all wrecked.
We had the Catalina Wine Mixer *POW!* and you changed it to brunch at Hometown Buffet.
Please fix it.
*This message has been sponsored by my wife Grahams and is brought to you by the Coalition for Guild Restoration and the Friends of Rising Sun Bronzebeard.
Just throwing another old idea:
Guild Halls.
Instanced buildings within Org and SW that can be customized with banners, statues from achieves, etc.
Mission tables for all applicable expansions and the weekly Mythic Loot Chest could also be found there. Portals to every raid in the current expansion. A banker. An auctioneer. Everything and anything the guild needs in a centralized location where guildies can congregate.
Heck, you can even make the dang thing cost 50k gold and only be unlocked by an achievement just to prevent/discourage 1-account guilds from abusing this feature.
This, and restoring granular rank controls.
Until the wife is happy, I cannot let this thread slip.
Guild Halls.
Instanced buildings within Org and SW that can be customized with banners, statues from achieves, etc.
Mission tables for all applicable expansions and the weekly Mythic Loot Chest could also be found there. Portals to every raid in the current expansion. A banker. An auctioneer. Everything and anything the guild needs in a centralized location where guildies can congregate.
Heck, you can even make the dang thing cost 50k gold and only be unlocked by an achievement just to prevent/discourage 1-account guilds from abusing this feature.
This, and restoring granular rank controls.
Until the wife is happy, I cannot let this thread slip.
I provided my feedback in a separate thread, instead of having it buried in here. I would encourage you to do the same as well: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20767688881
I also quote it here in the event that someone who can actually do something is reading this thread:
I also quote it here in the event that someone who can actually do something is reading this thread:
08/24/2018 12:50 PMPosted by PolgaraApparently weâve been asked to provide feedback regarding the problems created by the changes to guild management. The fact that these changes were intentional is very surprising. Iâm assuming that the architects of this new structure, if they run guilds, run them in a specific way and felt that everyone either must, or should, manage them in a similar fashion. This would be incorrect, and apparent to anyone who took the time to read through the thread here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/984270/
While I see the promise in the new system, in the short-term is has been a problem for many guilds. As we have been asked to "Let us know what problems you're having and we'll do what we can to solve those problems", Iâll do so here:
The granular permissions previously available have been replaced by an âofficer checkboxâ. While this may not have been the intention, the net result is that an âofficerâ has now been defined by Blizzard as someone who will always be able to:
Access officer channels
Remove people from voice chat
Delete other peopleâs chat messages
Delete other peopleâs guild events
View and edit officer notes
Edit Guild info
Edit Message of the Day
We are no longer able to define what an officer is. In our guild, prior to these changes, we functionally had 4 different levels/types of officers. This is no longer possible.
Rank 1: Co-GM rank, which has all the permissions of the GM (still possible)
Rank 2: Officer with advanced permissions but no access to Guild Info or MOTD (not possible now)
Rank 3: Officer with similar permissions to Rank 2, but cannot remove members (still possible)
Rank 4: Access to read officer chat, able to delete guild events, read-only access to officer notes. This is a rank of people who are trusted and want to help, but should not be full officers. (not possible now)
While the following does not impact my guilds, they were mentioned in the thread I referenced previously:
Some guilds were using officer chat for role playing â now they cannot allow access to it without making everyone officers. Some were using it as a read only tool for raiding (the leaders could post, team members cannot). There are many other instances where the changes have had an impact, and I would encourage you to read through the long thread regarding this.
It has been stated that changes were made to facilitate guilds and communities being able to exist using the same infrastructure. Thatâs fine â however the net tangible result (if you look at the other thread) is that people are now using Discord for things they used to do in-game. You donât foster and build a sense of community by removing the tools that have been used to build and manage guilds, which are the backbone of communities in WoW.
Letâs take persistent guild chat as an example: You have functionally changed guild chat from being a live conversation to being a message board where we are unable to manage the messages. Everything that is said now must be said with the knowledge that those words will last forever. This is a fundamental change to what guild chat is. I realize the path here is forward, and that you are unlikely to go backwards â but, if you were intent upon making this change, the transition to it could have been handled a bit more thoughtfully â and even now, it can be improved:
If guild chat now functions by using the same infrastructure as communities, then why am I able to manage my communities through the Battle.net client, where I can remove messages and use the other tools, but not guild chat?
Being able to remove messages and manage the âguild chat message boardâ through Battle.net would be helpful. This would also allow us to participate in guild chat using the mobile client â there are some of us who miss this. If the infrastructure is there, why not take advantage of it?
Why not either allow guilds to toggle persistent chat on /off, or at the very least, set a length of time to keep the history?
I could go on, but there is an entire thread relating to this issue and I have a life to get back to, a business to run, and a game that I would rather be playing than providing feedback on. Thank you in advance on the off chance that anyone who can do anything actually reads this. :)
Okay, now that I have time to formulate yet another response for your "we need more feedback." I came into this post at page 43, and those that have read my posts know that they are long. For warning, this one will be too.
I encourage others to follow this format.
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
I personally don't care if you are repeating yourself for the up-teenth time. If you feel it is worthy attention, then it's worth saying again.
In regards to the following request and comment from Ion:
**The right way to get this changed we are open to re-adding functionality where it makes sense. I think it's just a question of getting us feedback, helping us understand what value you were getting running your own guilds, your own communities, and we'll see what we can do.**
The Value in Running a Guild
Truth be told, I do not run my guild, I and my TEAM runs the guild. This is why having the permissions tab as it was, was so important. Different people have different roles, responsibilities, and contribute in different ways.
However, in the spirit of the requestâŚ.
Over the years I have come to terms with the simple fact that I'm a bit of a workaholic.
Do not misunderstand me in this however, I do not enjoy work, rather I'm a person that if I'm going to put my time, energy and effort into something, then it's worth doing right and all the way, or it's not worth doing at all. This makes me very meticulous. This shows not only in my work ethic, but even in the other hobbies I partake in.
Whenever I hear a group of people that want to run their own guild, for one reason or another, and I know they have never ran one before... I laugh. Not to poke fun at them, but rather out of sympathy, because they have no idea the can of worms they are about to open up.
Guilds take a level of commitment, determination and a hell of a lot of work to function. I don't run a guild because I think it's fun to do so. I run a guild because of the pride and fulfillment I get seeing it succeed, the friendships made, and people coming together to down some of the harder content in the game. If I never started my guild, these people may have never met each other, played together and so on. There is a sense of pride in that. Guild Leaders are not the only ones privy to this either, but anyone that puts in their efforts to the guild as well.
An example of this is that one of my members met her now husband within our guild. If not for us they may have never met. I know I'm not the only person that can say that. I know this touches close to home because there are the few developers that have had this happen to themselves.
Not only is there the personal aspects to this as well, but there is a bit of a professional one as well, depending on your view point.
However, you originally gave us the ability to run our guilds like a business, now with the new features is just a club.
I've found that I learned how to manage people better, and how to showcase strengths and recognize weaknesses in others. I've been able to directly translate this at work as a manager. When people ask me what it is that I do 3 nights out of the week, I simply tell others that I manage people for fun.... because in essence that is what you are doing.
Same goes for raid leading... hence the running joke of "It's like herding cats." It's not fun, and quite stressful to be honest. However, again the fulfillment comes from watching your hard work and effort come together.
It's not just about how many people are on your roster, or how many raid teams, RBG teams you have, or how many groups for people are able to do x content. It doesn't matter if you have 10 people in your guild, or 1,000. It's about being part of and working toward something together.
Whether you are the "casual player" that only likes to play pet battles and farm, or the "hardcore player" that min maxes and wants the hardest level of game play. Guilds bring these two very different players together in a way that Communities alone won't do.
I have found over the years that people keep coming back to WoW because of the friendships that they've made more than the content of the game itself. Lets face it, WoW is a forever repeating cycle of: level up, get gear, grind rep, get new shiny purple items, new content, new purple shinies, new grind to get new purple shiny (repeat).
When people recall players they recall the guilds that they were in. Over the 11 years that I've played I can tell you every guild I have ever been in. I also can recall a people from those guilds, who ran them and so on. When I take a break from the game I don't come back for the game. I come back for the people.
_______________________________________________________________________
Now that is out of the way, lets get down to the features.
Feature: View Officer Note
How it was used:
I used this feature to inform my leadership team when someone invited into the guild. We have a two week "Recruit" period. We do this for a couple of reasons. This allows time for the guild to get to know the new member, and the other way around.
If I or an "Officer" isn't on my "Junior Officers" were able to read these notes and promote accordingly. This also allowed them to read notes on players that may need more help with one aspect of the game than another.
How did the changes affect my guild:
My "Junior Officers" are not able to view these notes any longer without having full "Is Officer" privileges. My Junior Officers are actually "Class Leads" within the guild. They did not have and continue to have full privileges because these players, while capable and trusted, do not need or in some cases want the full responsibility of a full Officer.
Workaround:
I use a non blizzard product: Discord
I now relay information like players that may need a bit of help in a separate board for our Class Leads. Promotions are now handled by myself mostly, as well as roster management in general.
Also looking into the addon GRM for the additional note feature to replace the "Officer Note"
_________________________________________________
Feature: Edit Officer Note
How it was used:
This ties into viewing the note. My Class Leads would be able to update information regarding specific players.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This option is no longer available so it is not used in the same capacity.
Workaround:
Non Blizzard product used: Discord
Information is now just relayed in the Class Lead board, or is just messaged privately in game.
Also looking into the addon GRM for the additional note feature to replace the "Officer Note"
____________________________________________________
Feature: Officerchat Speak
How it was used:
This is something that my Officers have by default. This allows my Officers to speak amongst themselves during raids or other group content in game privately. This mainly pertains to a strategy that may not be working, of if there is an issue with a player that is not following direction or mechanics, so on and so forth. It was also used to address other concerns in the guild as well in the moment they were happening.
We originally had our Class Leads in this channel as well, but we found it was a situation of to many cooks in the kitchen type of situation. So we decided that it would be best to not have them in the channel as well.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This was something I was hoping to give back to my Class Leads since the guild is expanding to two teams this expansion. With the "Is Officer" umbrella I'm reluctant to do this, and more than likely will not give them this privilege now.
Also now in the advent of not being able to turn this off at a notice, if conversations get to heated. This conversation can persist and I have no way to deescalate this, and basically telling my Officers to table the discussion with out doing just that, or revoking all privileges.
**Note: Regarding listen, If I were able to essentially mute Officers, I would like to be able to still allow them to see the chat. However, I would much rather them be both separate toggles.
Workaround:
None: The Officer channel is very seldom used currently as Raids have yet to be released. So I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to address this if and when this happens.
_______________________________________________________
Feature:Edit Guild Info
How it was used:
This houses a brief "About Us" and our Discord information.
How did the changes affect my guild:
It has not affected my guild, as my Officers don't mess with this. However, this is something I do not like as it should be something, in my opinion, up to the Guild Leader.
Workaround:
None.
_____________________________________________________
Feature: Set MOTD (Message of the Day)
How it was used:
We place current news about the guild and updates on possible needs for the guild vault.
This is a little redundant as the MOTD is lost very quickly in addon spam. I have however noticed that is a little more prevalent in GUI for the guild chat. However, it is still very easily lost as not every opens that window frequently.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This did not affect my guild as my Officers already had access to this. However, there are plenty of guilds that do not hand out that permission.
Workaround:
Use non Blizzard product: Discord.
I place any important information that needs to get blasted out in an "Announcements" section within our Discord server. I get better reach this way as it will alert players.
____________________________________________________________
Feature: Sorting Last Online by Rank
How it was used:
This allowed me to look at players that have been out of the game for quite some time. We are an Alt friendly guild, so alts are marked in the Public Note. Since I was able to sort players in this way I could see if a player was on an alt more than their marked main quickly than having to scan through the full roster.
How did the changes affect my guild:
It makes my job of roster management a lot harder. Not everyone is good about keeping their notes up to par.
Workaround:
I use /groster to pull up the old GUI to be able to access this sorting method. It's not hard to do but it's just an extra step.
_________________________________________________________
New Feature: Persistent Guild Chat
How did the changes affect my guild:
It has not affected my guild, and more people seem to like it rather than not. With that being said, I do believe that this should be optional vs mandatory. If it is feasible to be able to give this as an option, I would HIGHLY recommend it.
_________________________________________________
This is all I have for now. I will post the things I would like to see integrated into the guild systems in a different post. Not only to break this up a bit, but also because frankly I would like to play the game instead of spending my entire evening writing about this for a 4th or 5th time.
In short "The Umbrella of" the "Is Officer" needs to be delinked. When people manage groups of people they look for more tools to make this easier, and instead of giving us more tools you took a bulk of them away.
In the advent of this your players are going to migrate to outside sources to gain some of this functionality back. I know with a fact this is the exact opposite of what was wanted in this.
I encourage others to follow this format.
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
I personally don't care if you are repeating yourself for the up-teenth time. If you feel it is worthy attention, then it's worth saying again.
In regards to the following request and comment from Ion:
**The right way to get this changed we are open to re-adding functionality where it makes sense. I think it's just a question of getting us feedback, helping us understand what value you were getting running your own guilds, your own communities, and we'll see what we can do.**
The Value in Running a Guild
Truth be told, I do not run my guild, I and my TEAM runs the guild. This is why having the permissions tab as it was, was so important. Different people have different roles, responsibilities, and contribute in different ways.
However, in the spirit of the requestâŚ.
Over the years I have come to terms with the simple fact that I'm a bit of a workaholic.
Do not misunderstand me in this however, I do not enjoy work, rather I'm a person that if I'm going to put my time, energy and effort into something, then it's worth doing right and all the way, or it's not worth doing at all. This makes me very meticulous. This shows not only in my work ethic, but even in the other hobbies I partake in.
Whenever I hear a group of people that want to run their own guild, for one reason or another, and I know they have never ran one before... I laugh. Not to poke fun at them, but rather out of sympathy, because they have no idea the can of worms they are about to open up.
Guilds take a level of commitment, determination and a hell of a lot of work to function. I don't run a guild because I think it's fun to do so. I run a guild because of the pride and fulfillment I get seeing it succeed, the friendships made, and people coming together to down some of the harder content in the game. If I never started my guild, these people may have never met each other, played together and so on. There is a sense of pride in that. Guild Leaders are not the only ones privy to this either, but anyone that puts in their efforts to the guild as well.
An example of this is that one of my members met her now husband within our guild. If not for us they may have never met. I know I'm not the only person that can say that. I know this touches close to home because there are the few developers that have had this happen to themselves.
Not only is there the personal aspects to this as well, but there is a bit of a professional one as well, depending on your view point.
However, you originally gave us the ability to run our guilds like a business, now with the new features is just a club.
I've found that I learned how to manage people better, and how to showcase strengths and recognize weaknesses in others. I've been able to directly translate this at work as a manager. When people ask me what it is that I do 3 nights out of the week, I simply tell others that I manage people for fun.... because in essence that is what you are doing.
Same goes for raid leading... hence the running joke of "It's like herding cats." It's not fun, and quite stressful to be honest. However, again the fulfillment comes from watching your hard work and effort come together.
It's not just about how many people are on your roster, or how many raid teams, RBG teams you have, or how many groups for people are able to do x content. It doesn't matter if you have 10 people in your guild, or 1,000. It's about being part of and working toward something together.
Whether you are the "casual player" that only likes to play pet battles and farm, or the "hardcore player" that min maxes and wants the hardest level of game play. Guilds bring these two very different players together in a way that Communities alone won't do.
I have found over the years that people keep coming back to WoW because of the friendships that they've made more than the content of the game itself. Lets face it, WoW is a forever repeating cycle of: level up, get gear, grind rep, get new shiny purple items, new content, new purple shinies, new grind to get new purple shiny (repeat).
When people recall players they recall the guilds that they were in. Over the 11 years that I've played I can tell you every guild I have ever been in. I also can recall a people from those guilds, who ran them and so on. When I take a break from the game I don't come back for the game. I come back for the people.
_______________________________________________________________________
Now that is out of the way, lets get down to the features.
Feature: View Officer Note
How it was used:
I used this feature to inform my leadership team when someone invited into the guild. We have a two week "Recruit" period. We do this for a couple of reasons. This allows time for the guild to get to know the new member, and the other way around.
If I or an "Officer" isn't on my "Junior Officers" were able to read these notes and promote accordingly. This also allowed them to read notes on players that may need more help with one aspect of the game than another.
How did the changes affect my guild:
My "Junior Officers" are not able to view these notes any longer without having full "Is Officer" privileges. My Junior Officers are actually "Class Leads" within the guild. They did not have and continue to have full privileges because these players, while capable and trusted, do not need or in some cases want the full responsibility of a full Officer.
Workaround:
I use a non blizzard product: Discord
I now relay information like players that may need a bit of help in a separate board for our Class Leads. Promotions are now handled by myself mostly, as well as roster management in general.
Also looking into the addon GRM for the additional note feature to replace the "Officer Note"
_________________________________________________
Feature: Edit Officer Note
How it was used:
This ties into viewing the note. My Class Leads would be able to update information regarding specific players.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This option is no longer available so it is not used in the same capacity.
Workaround:
Non Blizzard product used: Discord
Information is now just relayed in the Class Lead board, or is just messaged privately in game.
Also looking into the addon GRM for the additional note feature to replace the "Officer Note"
____________________________________________________
Feature: Officerchat Speak
How it was used:
This is something that my Officers have by default. This allows my Officers to speak amongst themselves during raids or other group content in game privately. This mainly pertains to a strategy that may not be working, of if there is an issue with a player that is not following direction or mechanics, so on and so forth. It was also used to address other concerns in the guild as well in the moment they were happening.
We originally had our Class Leads in this channel as well, but we found it was a situation of to many cooks in the kitchen type of situation. So we decided that it would be best to not have them in the channel as well.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This was something I was hoping to give back to my Class Leads since the guild is expanding to two teams this expansion. With the "Is Officer" umbrella I'm reluctant to do this, and more than likely will not give them this privilege now.
Also now in the advent of not being able to turn this off at a notice, if conversations get to heated. This conversation can persist and I have no way to deescalate this, and basically telling my Officers to table the discussion with out doing just that, or revoking all privileges.
**Note: Regarding listen, If I were able to essentially mute Officers, I would like to be able to still allow them to see the chat. However, I would much rather them be both separate toggles.
Workaround:
None: The Officer channel is very seldom used currently as Raids have yet to be released. So I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to address this if and when this happens.
_______________________________________________________
Feature:Edit Guild Info
How it was used:
This houses a brief "About Us" and our Discord information.
How did the changes affect my guild:
It has not affected my guild, as my Officers don't mess with this. However, this is something I do not like as it should be something, in my opinion, up to the Guild Leader.
Workaround:
None.
_____________________________________________________
Feature: Set MOTD (Message of the Day)
How it was used:
We place current news about the guild and updates on possible needs for the guild vault.
This is a little redundant as the MOTD is lost very quickly in addon spam. I have however noticed that is a little more prevalent in GUI for the guild chat. However, it is still very easily lost as not every opens that window frequently.
How did the changes affect my guild:
This did not affect my guild as my Officers already had access to this. However, there are plenty of guilds that do not hand out that permission.
Workaround:
Use non Blizzard product: Discord.
I place any important information that needs to get blasted out in an "Announcements" section within our Discord server. I get better reach this way as it will alert players.
____________________________________________________________
Feature: Sorting Last Online by Rank
How it was used:
This allowed me to look at players that have been out of the game for quite some time. We are an Alt friendly guild, so alts are marked in the Public Note. Since I was able to sort players in this way I could see if a player was on an alt more than their marked main quickly than having to scan through the full roster.
How did the changes affect my guild:
It makes my job of roster management a lot harder. Not everyone is good about keeping their notes up to par.
Workaround:
I use /groster to pull up the old GUI to be able to access this sorting method. It's not hard to do but it's just an extra step.
_________________________________________________________
New Feature: Persistent Guild Chat
How did the changes affect my guild:
It has not affected my guild, and more people seem to like it rather than not. With that being said, I do believe that this should be optional vs mandatory. If it is feasible to be able to give this as an option, I would HIGHLY recommend it.
_________________________________________________
This is all I have for now. I will post the things I would like to see integrated into the guild systems in a different post. Not only to break this up a bit, but also because frankly I would like to play the game instead of spending my entire evening writing about this for a 4th or 5th time.
In short "The Umbrella of" the "Is Officer" needs to be delinked. When people manage groups of people they look for more tools to make this easier, and instead of giving us more tools you took a bulk of them away.
In the advent of this your players are going to migrate to outside sources to gain some of this functionality back. I know with a fact this is the exact opposite of what was wanted in this.
08/06/2018 10:15 AMPosted by YthisensExtended the cap once more on this one!
As you can imagine we're aware of this thread but don't have anything to share at this time but just wanted to say thanks for the continued feedback on this one. As soon as we have something to share we will post that for you guys.
Thanks for the feedback, we cannot do anything?
Of course you can. Players were abusing the iLVL scaling to kill things faster and you rolled out a hot patch to fix that within hours of it becoming a known thing again, you can do the same here.
Sadly, the community managers only exist to quell potential player forum riots. They have no say in the game nor can bring stuff to the developers' attention.
This thread will accomplish nothing of value.
This thread will accomplish nothing of value.
Why does blizzard insist on "upgrading" things by removing options? This is such a headache for people managing guilds.
Please revert the guild permissions!
At this point, it honestly feels like this is being ignored in the hopes we'll give up and go away.
At this point, it honestly feels like this is being ignored in the hopes we'll give up and go away.
08/24/2018 08:41 PMPosted by ElypsisPlease revert the guild permissions!
Give your reasons why. They want more "Feedback" so just saying revert the changes dose no good.
I would encurage you to list the following:
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
Otherwise you probably are waisting your breath.
This is a very good format, Irannia. Your previous post is very worth reading (for those who want a clear example of how the changes are specifically affecting a specific guild). Every guild is different, so the changes are going to affect each guild differently.08/24/2018 08:52 PMPosted by Irannia08/24/2018 08:41 PMPosted by ElypsisPlease revert the guild permissions!
Give your reasons why. They want more "Feedback" so just saying revert the changes dose no good.
I would encurage you to list the following:
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
Otherwise you probably are waisting your breath.
Feature: All permissions lumped under "is officer".
How it affects my guild: My own guild is tiny--really a friends and family guild. The changes don't truly affect me now, but they make me very unlikely to grow my guild into anything more. I don't have the time to manage a guild all on my own. I would need help of various officers, but I would not want all officers to have all permissions.
Workaround: None. I simply will keep my guild as it is and not try to do more.
Irannia made some great points about the ranks, I could just repeat what they said but for now I'll just upvote them and voice my support for their post and add some thoughts of my own in their format:
Feature: Edit Guild Message of the Day.
How it was used: This before could be assigned to a custom rank as a fun reward for accomplishing something.
How did the changes affect my guild: Can't do it anymore.
Workaround: None.
---------------
Feature: Edit guild info.
How it was used: Before, I could give someone permission to do write ups about the guild in the guild info. Their "job" in the guild was to keep the info up to date and fresh. Like a newsboard. But they didn't want or need all the permissions and responsibility of being an officer.
How did the changes affect my guild: Can't do that anymore without making them an officer.
Workaround: None possible in game.
--------------
Feature: Forced persistent guild Chat.
How it was used: To chat with friends and get to know people.
How did the changes affect my guild: Have to treat the chat as a public chat room now, as you're not just talking to the people currently only but anyone offline. As well as anyone who joins in the future. I really hope no one is saying anything remotely personal in guild chat, because now that information is out there for everyone to see forever. Maybe you don't care about that, maybe you've never come across the type of person that would make this kind of thing a problem, good for you.
This also makes Officer chat absolutely useless for discussing anything remotely sensitive. All that chat will have to happen outside of game now.
This issue could be solved entirely by giving us the option for multiple chat channels in guild with options to have them have persistant chat or not in addition to multiple layers of permissions. Since we can create custom named chat channels in game already, I imagine adding this functionality to the guild UI wouldn't be too crazy. It would be a nice expansion of chat functions.
Workaround: Friends and I just stick to discord and don't bother with trying to find new players to invite to guild. Like Fumel said, these changes make us unlikely to want to grow our guild.
General suggestions:
It would be nice to see an expansion of player notes. Allow us to have expanded character "profiles" within the guild interface. It would be great for RPers, but also useful for other things such as posting availability/plans to be absent etc...
Feature: Edit Guild Message of the Day.
How it was used: This before could be assigned to a custom rank as a fun reward for accomplishing something.
How did the changes affect my guild: Can't do it anymore.
Workaround: None.
---------------
Feature: Edit guild info.
How it was used: Before, I could give someone permission to do write ups about the guild in the guild info. Their "job" in the guild was to keep the info up to date and fresh. Like a newsboard. But they didn't want or need all the permissions and responsibility of being an officer.
How did the changes affect my guild: Can't do that anymore without making them an officer.
Workaround: None possible in game.
--------------
Feature: Forced persistent guild Chat.
How it was used: To chat with friends and get to know people.
How did the changes affect my guild: Have to treat the chat as a public chat room now, as you're not just talking to the people currently only but anyone offline. As well as anyone who joins in the future. I really hope no one is saying anything remotely personal in guild chat, because now that information is out there for everyone to see forever. Maybe you don't care about that, maybe you've never come across the type of person that would make this kind of thing a problem, good for you.
This also makes Officer chat absolutely useless for discussing anything remotely sensitive. All that chat will have to happen outside of game now.
This issue could be solved entirely by giving us the option for multiple chat channels in guild with options to have them have persistant chat or not in addition to multiple layers of permissions. Since we can create custom named chat channels in game already, I imagine adding this functionality to the guild UI wouldn't be too crazy. It would be a nice expansion of chat functions.
Workaround: Friends and I just stick to discord and don't bother with trying to find new players to invite to guild. Like Fumel said, these changes make us unlikely to want to grow our guild.
General suggestions:
It would be nice to see an expansion of player notes. Allow us to have expanded character "profiles" within the guild interface. It would be great for RPers, but also useful for other things such as posting availability/plans to be absent etc...
1 Like
I am the GM (that's me, the Guild Leader) of MY guild.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) made my guild late in Vanilla.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) set up how I wanted my guild to be (ie: our "mission statement" rules /guidelines, behavior / type (which equates to are we a social guild, raiding guild, etc...)
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) Recruited guild members.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) then used the guild control that had always been there and continued to be there up until very recently to set up our ranking system.
(Pause rant)
Facts:
We have (or rather had) multiple levels of officers due to participation, reliability, availability, trustworthiness, and so forth.
We also have (rather had) multiple layers of ranks we use to show exactly how trustworthy, reliable, active, and trusting we are of individual guildies.
(That's all utterly destroyed now) = Workaround none.
Occasionally over the years we've gotten someone who doesn't know how to behave in a group environment, or someone who can not obide one of our main guidelines "No cursing in guild chat" (That's mainly no F-bombs as we are family oriented) Nice person, but can't stop f-bombing? No problem. They were "mutable" with the options I had in guild control.
Workaround: None
*Side Note*
We're a guild of goofs. For several years now our regular "goofs" have been fairly consistent. They have a game they play amongst themselves with the guild note. They change them in light hearted ways. Ex: Guildie B might write the following in Guildie A's public note: Guildie A hugs kittens! Guildie A would then reply to guildie A by writing Guildie A is a Crazy Cat Lady! etc..(their sense of humor is much better than my examples, but I think it makes my point) It's all part of our game.
Their game is impossible now. (at least if they are to include everyone as they always have)
Workaround: None
Resume rant:
I (that's me the Guild Leader) did not need change.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) did not ask for any changes.
I (that's me, the guild leader) was never informed of in any way shape or form that these ridiculously useless and aggravating changes would be made to MY guild,
The same guild that I (that's me, the Guild Leader) have created, nourished, worried over, put years of my personal time (that's MY time. Me the Guild Leader's time) into recruiting, creating guild pages on the web, researching dungeons, bosses, setting up runs, researching alternate realms, creating sister guilds on those realms, recruiting, interviewing, creating guild events, refereeing guildies, introducing guildies who became great friends, some became enemies, (some got married and had children) deciding who to promote and who not to promote, booting !@#-hats, spent endless hours looking up / researching information for, and providing said to my guildies, maintaining our web-pages, making wonderful friends, sadly, losing wonderful friends. (RIP heroes) Smiling over, crying over, losing sleep over, getting frustrated with, losing my mind over.....Mine.
To clarify. That's my time, my blood sweat and tears, my sanity, my tears, my smiles. my lost sleep, Mine. Me. The Guild Leader's.
You Blizzard, had no right to change those things (especially without my desire, my consent, or at the very least my foreknowledge of)
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) feel betrayed, back-stabbed, blindsided, and shoved rudely aside without the slightest care, concern, though or feeling whatsoever on Blizzard's part.
Workaround: None.
I (that's me. The Leader of the guild BloodOath) would like the control of my guild restored to me please.
Thank you.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) made my guild late in Vanilla.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) set up how I wanted my guild to be (ie: our "mission statement" rules /guidelines, behavior / type (which equates to are we a social guild, raiding guild, etc...)
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) Recruited guild members.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) then used the guild control that had always been there and continued to be there up until very recently to set up our ranking system.
(Pause rant)
Facts:
We have (or rather had) multiple levels of officers due to participation, reliability, availability, trustworthiness, and so forth.
We also have (rather had) multiple layers of ranks we use to show exactly how trustworthy, reliable, active, and trusting we are of individual guildies.
(That's all utterly destroyed now) = Workaround none.
Occasionally over the years we've gotten someone who doesn't know how to behave in a group environment, or someone who can not obide one of our main guidelines "No cursing in guild chat" (That's mainly no F-bombs as we are family oriented) Nice person, but can't stop f-bombing? No problem. They were "mutable" with the options I had in guild control.
Workaround: None
*Side Note*
We're a guild of goofs. For several years now our regular "goofs" have been fairly consistent. They have a game they play amongst themselves with the guild note. They change them in light hearted ways. Ex: Guildie B might write the following in Guildie A's public note: Guildie A hugs kittens! Guildie A would then reply to guildie A by writing Guildie A is a Crazy Cat Lady! etc..(their sense of humor is much better than my examples, but I think it makes my point) It's all part of our game.
Their game is impossible now. (at least if they are to include everyone as they always have)
Workaround: None
Resume rant:
I (that's me the Guild Leader) did not need change.
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) did not ask for any changes.
I (that's me, the guild leader) was never informed of in any way shape or form that these ridiculously useless and aggravating changes would be made to MY guild,
The same guild that I (that's me, the Guild Leader) have created, nourished, worried over, put years of my personal time (that's MY time. Me the Guild Leader's time) into recruiting, creating guild pages on the web, researching dungeons, bosses, setting up runs, researching alternate realms, creating sister guilds on those realms, recruiting, interviewing, creating guild events, refereeing guildies, introducing guildies who became great friends, some became enemies, (some got married and had children) deciding who to promote and who not to promote, booting !@#-hats, spent endless hours looking up / researching information for, and providing said to my guildies, maintaining our web-pages, making wonderful friends, sadly, losing wonderful friends. (RIP heroes) Smiling over, crying over, losing sleep over, getting frustrated with, losing my mind over.....Mine.
To clarify. That's my time, my blood sweat and tears, my sanity, my tears, my smiles. my lost sleep, Mine. Me. The Guild Leader's.
You Blizzard, had no right to change those things (especially without my desire, my consent, or at the very least my foreknowledge of)
I (that's me, the Guild Leader) feel betrayed, back-stabbed, blindsided, and shoved rudely aside without the slightest care, concern, though or feeling whatsoever on Blizzard's part.
Workaround: None.
I (that's me. The Leader of the guild BloodOath) would like the control of my guild restored to me please.
Thank you.
What feedback needs to be said that 68 pages of ideas haven't been said? How about they come post in this thread and tell us the ideas they like and don't like? How about they come communicate with us about what we'd like to see vs. what they want to do and create something that both parties would like instead wasting resources changing things randomly?08/24/2018 08:52 PMPosted by IranniaGive your reasons why. They want more "Feedback" so just saying revert the changes dose no good.
There's nothing more to be said until we hear back on what they want to do with our ideas and their ideas. 1 way audio doesn't promote discussion, it gives the impression of being ignored.
Keep in mind, we're 40 days past when this bullcrap dropped, not a damn word has been said from Blizzard since, and neither are they trying to exchange ideas with us about this.
Let's keep the heat on this issue!
I like the idea that we should be asking for more features, not less! The Guild Hall has always been one of my favorite ideas. Sure would be great if the dev team gave us an open mic, heard us out on this and other things, so we can move forward positively! How about it? Q&A for guild leaders with the devs?
I like the idea that we should be asking for more features, not less! The Guild Hall has always been one of my favorite ideas. Sure would be great if the dev team gave us an open mic, heard us out on this and other things, so we can move forward positively! How about it? Q&A for guild leaders with the devs?
@Raicolette
To directly answer your question. Why say what has already been said over 68 pages? These changes affect each and every guild differently. Guilds are as unique as the people who create them.
You should know that as you are a Guild Leader as well.
Blizzard did put the question on the Q&A, they could have ignored it all together if they so chose. However, they did not, and they asked for more feedback. IF that is what they want then that is what they should get.
Again as I stated, if it's worth attention then it's worth saying again.
Lets take a look at your posts on this forum... I won't go into the other threads.
I also wont pick and choose what you say either.
So to all of this, where is your feedback? All I see is, bash Blizzard. How is this constructive? If you want to troll, then that is on you... by no means does it bother me. However, it does nothing for what we are asking other than bump the thread.
I respect that there are a lot of people upset by these changes, myself included.
The following:
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
This came from my husband, who was a code devoloper for a private UO server back in the day. He used to do the whole, read forum threads and complaints. And the posts like yours are outright ignored because it's what I already stated, a bash fest.
If you want this to change then be constructive.
To directly answer your question. Why say what has already been said over 68 pages? These changes affect each and every guild differently. Guilds are as unique as the people who create them.
You should know that as you are a Guild Leader as well.
Blizzard did put the question on the Q&A, they could have ignored it all together if they so chose. However, they did not, and they asked for more feedback. IF that is what they want then that is what they should get.
Again as I stated, if it's worth attention then it's worth saying again.
Lets take a look at your posts on this forum... I won't go into the other threads.
I also wont pick and choose what you say either.
08/23/2018 02:26 PMPosted by RaicoletteYou know what this tells me, the CMs don't tell Blizzard what we're asking for and neither is Blizzard aware of what we're wanting. They're literally out of touch with the player base. Freakin' sad.08/23/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Tarayn"Let us know what problems you're having [regarding guild permissions] and we'll do what we can to solve those problems" - Ion during Q&A
Please, someone tell Ion:
"Thanks for asking. Read posts here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165 "
Guess he isn't aware of this thread or he wasn't honestly requesting input...
<span class="truncated">...</span>The "blues" are just messengers. They can't tell us anything they've not been told. It's completely unfair to blame them for Blizzard's devs' lack of response.As soon as they have something? What's the something? What are they looking at changing? Why aren't they coming here to exchange ideas with us instead of wasting developer resources on something we may not like?
I'm positive our concerns have been passed on to the devs, but until the devs say something, a CM can't tell us anything: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=51#post-1002
Ythisens: "As soon as we have something to share we will post that for you guys."
This mess is totally on the devs, as is their lack of response. The Community Managers are just caught between the hammer and anvil.
I call bullcrap on them not having anything. They're just staying in their bubble, AGAIN.
08/22/2018 07:29 AMPosted by RaicoletteWe still don't have a response but they, as in Blizzard, will gladly comment on things they can dismiss or useless topics on. This dev team, LUL.
Oh hold up, I got a better one, they'll want till the Q&A, dismiss our requests and then say they think the Guild Permissions are fine, lmao.
Even better, we'll watch the Q&A and not hear anything important answered again as usual.
HAHA, I'm dying over how bad their PR is. Is this the Blizzard that folks defend and say are a great company compared to others? 'cause I'm not seeing it. Like, they can't take 5 minutes out of their day to say they're working on it. Shoot, the developers can't even take 15 minutes to come by here and exchange ideas with us. Absolute joke that F2P and small companies / games communicate better.
08/21/2018 08:01 AMPosted by RaicoletteKnowing Blizzard and their min maxing, we won't get anything. We're not that high of a priority to them. Thankfully though, someone has made a addon that makes our lives easier. Check out this thread and addon called Guild Roster Manager (GRM) by Arkaan.08/21/2018 07:29 AMPosted by LucyclawlessIt'd also be nice to know if we will be able to set up access to notes outside of officer-only, priority access, etc.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766746640
As for the thread, once again Blizzard, your silence and resilience to give us feedback to our responses and exchanging of ideas is irritating. If you want to make changes to the Guild UI, fine, but let us be in the loop and build something together that both you and us would want.
08/16/2018 07:20 PMPosted by RaicoletteThe only time people shout is when they can't login or when they get told no to High Elfs.08/16/2018 12:12 PMPosted by ĂthelwulfIf you guys want this changed back you are going to have to shout louder longer and harder if you want to be heard. You NEED to be heard.
I'm still waiting to hear something from them that they're working on it. Also, why haven't they exchanged ideas with us? Why hasn't Blizzard come back here and engaged in a conversation to what they'd like to do vs. what we would like to see. Why are they not talking to the GMs or potential GMs?
I Like I said, If they actually cared, they would've been talking to us.07/22/2018 04:54 PMPosted by RaicoletteIf they actually cared and wanted to involve us in with the discussion of balance, they would've responded.
08/15/2018 09:20 AMPosted by RaicoletteAny word from Blizzard yet or are we GMs just going to continue to be ignored? Or is this another one of Blizzard containment threads where they actually pretend they're listening or even thinking about reverting?
Rank permissions didn't need changing and whoever at Blizzard thought it did, needs to stop coming up ideas for a bit. Because this is abysmal without asking if we wanted this change or anything different with the Guild UI.
<span class="truncated">...</span>Oh trust me, at this point, I'm just looking to get my money's worth. We'll see what entails for me with this "Blizzard quality finish" 2 years from now. A small hint, not looking very good.
Apparently they're listening. Whatever that means. The fact that we can't even get why this happened kind of blows my mind.
Between this and forced personal loot, if I was heading a raiding guild, I'd be exploring other MMO options to move my guild to.
08/08/2018 07:04 AMPosted by Raicolette3 weeks later and not a damn word to one of the core keys of your player base. Like I said, this shows you how resilient they are to changing this or even saying anything.
08/06/2018 12:12 PMPosted by RaicoletteBingo. Making changes no one asked for nor asking us if we want something different.08/06/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Siftinglove how you guys broke this without even asking the playerbase if it was a needed fix
07/31/2018 07:37 AMPosted by RaicoletteIt's not our job to reach out to them. They should be reaching out to us. Insane how they don't have someone looking and responding to complaints on the official game forums.07/31/2018 12:20 AMPosted by GreenstoneBlizzard asked to keep them in the loop and use Twitter to keep them informed of problems so I am doing so as a responsible consumer.
Not a happy GM atm and haven't been happy for quite some time due to blizzard.
07/25/2018 06:56 AMPosted by Raicolette26 pages no response though. Clearly shows you their resilience to change or revert the new Guild UI.
So to all of this, where is your feedback? All I see is, bash Blizzard. How is this constructive? If you want to troll, then that is on you... by no means does it bother me. However, it does nothing for what we are asking other than bump the thread.
I respect that there are a lot of people upset by these changes, myself included.
The following:
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
This came from my husband, who was a code devoloper for a private UO server back in the day. He used to do the whole, read forum threads and complaints. And the posts like yours are outright ignored because it's what I already stated, a bash fest.
If you want this to change then be constructive.
I don't have any recommendations other than for them to implement this addon as I had briefly stated earlier. One addon has done what I'm sure 90% of GMs would've liked to have seen Blizzard create well before my time of picking up WoW. Here's a link: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/2076674664008/26/2018 09:26 AMPosted by IranniaSo to all of this, where is your feedback? All I see is, bash Blizzard. How is this constructive? If you want to troll, then that is on you... by no means does it bother me. However, it does nothing for what we are asking other than bump the thread.
I respect that there are a lot of people upset by these changes, myself included.
The following:
Feature:
How it was used:
How did the changes affect my guild:
Workaround:
This came from my husband, who was a code devoloper for a private UO server back in the day. He used to do the whole, read forum threads and complaints. And the posts like yours are outright ignored because it's what I already stated, a bash fest.
If you want this to change then be constructive.
This addon literally has all the changes I'd rather have seen but a lot of ideas here, I've put my like on them. Moving from that, if it was me, I'd rather have the old Guild Roster back. I don't like this UI nor the permission mashed under 1 stupid button of Officer.
There's not one darn new thing I like about this new Guild UI. I want the old one back because it was simple, small, and convenient. The addon here that I described, makes managing alts, seeing the log of everything, and just general management smoother and easier.
I'm not the person with a degree in Graphics Arts and Design, I'm just an IT and Systems Security Specialist. When we F something up that staff, and especially management, don't like, we revert and exchange ideas of what we wanted to do. The old UI was better and literally my gripe is no feedback from Blizzard.
I can't provide feedback to an echo chamber nor someone that won't listen. I've been down this road with Blizzard Overwatch team, we've been down this road with 7.3.5 and 8.0 issues and let me remind you that the majority of this thread is aimed at the Permissions changes. Here's a quote for you, it's on Page 1:
07/17/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Osiris> New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
> Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png
This thread is literally just a containment zone and so far, they've shown no intentions on trying to communicate that otherwise, besides Ion's comment from the Q&A. The fact that Blizzard will take time to respond to the leveling and scaling issues on the forums is nice; HOWEVER, the fact that they won't talk to a core body of their player base is abysmal on itself.
Edit: Remember, we're 40 days past when this all started and all we have is 1 comment saying "what do you not like", when there's a 68 page thread on this already.