Almighty Blizzard, hear our prayers. Bless us with thy grace and shine your countenance upon this thread, that we may meet upon the table of Guild Mastery, and be lifted up to thy heavenly understanding.
Day by day.
By day.
By day.
Agree, new guild tab junk is all screwed up and is terrible. The fact that someone got paid to do that makes me sad...
Just one example. This is a good one.08/08/2018 07:23 PMPosted by KatriNo one can invite in our guild besides officers, they probably would let me be one but really unnecessary just let me invite again
No more custom Recruiter ranks without having full Officer access.
Please revert the changes.
It is a little bit of an inconvenience now. It will be a massive problem in 4 DAYS. Please REVERT. Thank you.
3 weeks, no response.
Please revert the Permission changes you are crippling guilds.
It better not. They're killing guild rank progression with this crap.08/08/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Rumbled08/06/2018 10:15 AMPosted by YthisensExtended the cap once more on this one!
As you can imagine we're aware of this thread but don't have anything to share at this time but just wanted to say thanks for the continued feedback on this one. As soon as we have something to share we will post that for you guys.
Aka we'll hear nothing ever again as it has gone the way of the dance studio.
Appreciate the attention from the great yak on this.
I like the new UI for the guild stuff, but like many others, completely disagree to the changes that were made for guild permissions. My GM had to promote many members of the guild to officer so they could continue to do things like recruit members or assist with guild bank stuff.
I like the new UI for the guild stuff, but like many others, completely disagree to the changes that were made for guild permissions. My GM had to promote many members of the guild to officer so they could continue to do things like recruit members or assist with guild bank stuff.
Im not sure why they wanted to downgrade guilds so much, ever since they removed perks and guild levels, and now watering it down even further, let me guess, next they will remove bank tabs or gold repairs...its just awful, they need to revert it, AND bring back perks
Hey!
I know you guys have other fires (that you started yourselves, like messing with Group Finder) but I'm not gunna let this go!
Revert or redesign, thanks.
I know you guys have other fires (that you started yourselves, like messing with Group Finder) but I'm not gunna let this go!
Revert or redesign, thanks.
People keep saying that Bliz WANTED to nerf guilds and force their players into the new communities concept (which is still in its infancy and unsurprisingly clunky as it awaits the inevitable improvements). If we want any hope of continuing to enjoy this game, we must assume that Bliz is not simply acting as an evil empire looking to ignore as many players as they can. As a software developer who has lived through several of these disasters at various large companies, let me present an alternate timeline for how this all happened:
1. Bliz game designers listened to users, and proposed the new Communities functionality to allow cross-server groups of like minded people.
2. The scaled-back Communities interface was designed, and someone decided that there are synergies with the Guild functionality.
3. Some gung ho coder saw that there were a number of flags for various permissions in the guild data. Since each flag requires data space and maintenance overhead, they proposed that all the flags could be replaced by an IsOfficer flag, simplifying the code measurably.
4. The proposal was OKed because the people who should have analysed the ramifications in much more depth were busy with the thousands of other changes in BfA, and didn't think of all the scenarios where the granularity was necessary.
5. The code and database changes were made, and the data was converted into the new layout. Not enough noise was made soon enough in the alpha and beta to get it reverted before it was too late.
This brings us to the prepatch. GMs suddenly realize that they have been cut off at the knees. There is massive backlash (although I suspect that GMs make up maybe 1% of the player base, so what we consider massive is less so to Bliz). However, reverting the flags would require a database change to put back the fields that are now history. A solid rule that smart companies follow during software upgrades is that you NEVER make a database change at the last minute, because it can cause way more damage than you can imagine if anything goes wrong. Thus, I think Bliz is truly listening to us but can't do anything until the first post-patch. Fixing things like this in a hotfix has probably been the root cause of major fiascos in the past, so no amount of yelling or pleading will make them risk the other 99% of their user base, and they will fix this when the expansion is out and relatively stable. My biggest frustration right now is that I don't see the downside of Bliz admitting they made a booboo and explaining that the will fix it "soon", other than the fact that the discussion would undoubtedly immediately turn to trying to name and shame the programmers, which would be misguided.
All that said, add me to the list of GM that are insisting this change be reverted since it is really screwing up my vision of how my guild should work, and causing my guildies conniptions as a result.
1. Bliz game designers listened to users, and proposed the new Communities functionality to allow cross-server groups of like minded people.
2. The scaled-back Communities interface was designed, and someone decided that there are synergies with the Guild functionality.
3. Some gung ho coder saw that there were a number of flags for various permissions in the guild data. Since each flag requires data space and maintenance overhead, they proposed that all the flags could be replaced by an IsOfficer flag, simplifying the code measurably.
4. The proposal was OKed because the people who should have analysed the ramifications in much more depth were busy with the thousands of other changes in BfA, and didn't think of all the scenarios where the granularity was necessary.
5. The code and database changes were made, and the data was converted into the new layout. Not enough noise was made soon enough in the alpha and beta to get it reverted before it was too late.
This brings us to the prepatch. GMs suddenly realize that they have been cut off at the knees. There is massive backlash (although I suspect that GMs make up maybe 1% of the player base, so what we consider massive is less so to Bliz). However, reverting the flags would require a database change to put back the fields that are now history. A solid rule that smart companies follow during software upgrades is that you NEVER make a database change at the last minute, because it can cause way more damage than you can imagine if anything goes wrong. Thus, I think Bliz is truly listening to us but can't do anything until the first post-patch. Fixing things like this in a hotfix has probably been the root cause of major fiascos in the past, so no amount of yelling or pleading will make them risk the other 99% of their user base, and they will fix this when the expansion is out and relatively stable. My biggest frustration right now is that I don't see the downside of Bliz admitting they made a booboo and explaining that the will fix it "soon", other than the fact that the discussion would undoubtedly immediately turn to trying to name and shame the programmers, which would be misguided.
All that said, add me to the list of GM that are insisting this change be reverted since it is really screwing up my vision of how my guild should work, and causing my guildies conniptions as a result.
My guilds pretty annoyed that people can’t edit their own PUBLIC notes now without being an officer.
We put notes on people to tell them apart, especially if they’re alts of a longtime member or a newbie.
Now it’s just tedious that one of our few people who has been entrusted with the power to demote and KICK people from the guild has to be online to put a note on someone to say, “Oh hey, this is one of Lue’s alts btw”
We gave everyone the ability to do that, particularly our recruitment officers (the rank below those with the discipline roles), because it’s incredibly tedious to make them do anything.
I don’t get why taking away an incredibly simple control is necessary.
They don’t even have to separate guilds from communities, just give us control over our permissions back.
We put notes on people to tell them apart, especially if they’re alts of a longtime member or a newbie.
Now it’s just tedious that one of our few people who has been entrusted with the power to demote and KICK people from the guild has to be online to put a note on someone to say, “Oh hey, this is one of Lue’s alts btw”
We gave everyone the ability to do that, particularly our recruitment officers (the rank below those with the discipline roles), because it’s incredibly tedious to make them do anything.
I don’t get why taking away an incredibly simple control is necessary.
They don’t even have to separate guilds from communities, just give us control over our permissions back.
Bump
I'm not sure what to do right now, Blizzard...
Our guild runs on a structure that allows some ranks to be able to partake in certain functions at different ranks to assist our main officers. Unfortunately, this change they introduced with 8.0 made our existing rank system less meaningful - by a lot.
>> We had 3 ranks of leadership outside the main guild leader rank.
>> We had a silence/time-out rank.
>> Members that were not in our lowest rank were able to use and edit Public Notes.
Of course, ranks in between also varied on bank access, which I'm happy to know that the bank was basically left alone.
We've had to make a blizzard community to make up for lack of /o for our third officer rank. Now with this being a rank that is expected to have members promoted/demoted, I would rather not have a community where I have to remember and manage people in that one too when someone gets demoted back to a traditional member rank. (What would be lovely, is if we can setup new channels in guild chat to only be available to specific ranks. Then my complain of /o would be non-existent.)
There's basically no difference between our 2nd (co-gls) and 3rd (officers) ranks aside from "remove member" at this point. While I trust my members in rank 3, they also agree that they don't need all that permission that's attached to the catch all "is officer".
Our silence rank is not operable anymore...
Which brings me to this - Now I have to reconsidered how to structure my guild all over again, after I had already restructured it in preparation for BFA and our member influx not even a month before 8.0 was released. But I'm trying to wait on a response from Blizzard, in the case that I would have to do it again, if a change is underway.
Do you think we could possibly get a response before all of our fellow guild leadership spends hours-days in trying to come up with a rank/permission structure that best fits their guild (assuming they hadn't already)?
Our guild runs on a structure that allows some ranks to be able to partake in certain functions at different ranks to assist our main officers. Unfortunately, this change they introduced with 8.0 made our existing rank system less meaningful - by a lot.
>> We had 3 ranks of leadership outside the main guild leader rank.
Immediately under the gl rank, we had one rank for my alts as well as a couple individuals that I greatly trusted to help carry on guild activities and management in the event that I had IRL situations come up. My Co-GMs, if you may. This rank had whatever access I could provide them to carry on the guild as a temporary guild leader.
Under them was our primary officers, where they had the ability to edit MotD, view/edit officer notes, manage guild events, access /o. They could also promote/demote members, and demotion usually was to our 'silence rank' so that myself or another above them could assist if we were not online.
Our third leadership rank was for our members to earn and help out our leadership with. They basically only were able to use /o and be able to view officer note. That was all they needed, as their jobs were very small (such as a raid leader assistant) or they were new runner ups for our primary officer rank that wanted to get their feet wet before commitment.
>> We had a silence/time-out rank.
And, because we hardly ever used it, this rank we also made as our joke around rank to get people more accustomed to seeing demotions to this rank without having the awkward or super angry feelings when something serious does require someone to go to this rank. No one was able to talk in /g when here.
>> Members that were not in our lowest rank were able to use and edit Public Notes.
They were respectful with it. Never had a problem. They marked their own alts or used it for relevant information.
Of course, ranks in between also varied on bank access, which I'm happy to know that the bank was basically left alone.
We've had to make a blizzard community to make up for lack of /o for our third officer rank. Now with this being a rank that is expected to have members promoted/demoted, I would rather not have a community where I have to remember and manage people in that one too when someone gets demoted back to a traditional member rank. (What would be lovely, is if we can setup new channels in guild chat to only be available to specific ranks. Then my complain of /o would be non-existent.)
There's basically no difference between our 2nd (co-gls) and 3rd (officers) ranks aside from "remove member" at this point. While I trust my members in rank 3, they also agree that they don't need all that permission that's attached to the catch all "is officer".
Our silence rank is not operable anymore...
Which brings me to this - Now I have to reconsidered how to structure my guild all over again, after I had already restructured it in preparation for BFA and our member influx not even a month before 8.0 was released. But I'm trying to wait on a response from Blizzard, in the case that I would have to do it again, if a change is underway.
Do you think we could possibly get a response before all of our fellow guild leadership spends hours-days in trying to come up with a rank/permission structure that best fits their guild (assuming they hadn't already)?
08/09/2018 11:32 AMPosted by BeteljuicePeople keep saying that Bliz WANTED to nerf guilds and force their players into the new communities concept (which is still in its infancy and unsurprisingly clunky as it awaits the inevitable improvements). If we want any hope of continuing to enjoy this game, we must assume that Bliz is not simply acting as an evil empire looking to ignore as many players as they can. As a software developer who has lived through several of these disasters at various large companies, let me present an alternate timeline for how this all happened:
1. Bliz game designers listened to users, and proposed the new Communities functionality to allow cross-server groups of like minded people.
2. The scaled-back Communities interface was designed, and someone decided that there are synergies with the Guild functionality.
3. Some gung ho coder saw that there were a number of flags for various permissions in the guild data. Since each flag requires data space and maintenance overhead, they proposed that all the flags could be replaced by an IsOfficer flag, simplifying the code measurably.
4. The proposal was OKed because the people who should have analysed the ramifications in much more depth were busy with the thousands of other changes in BfA, and didn't think of all the scenarios where the granularity was necessary.
5. The code and database changes were made, and the data was converted into the new layout. Not enough noise was made soon enough in the alpha and beta to get it reverted before it was too late.
This brings us to the prepatch. GMs suddenly realize that they have been cut off at the knees. There is massive backlash (although I suspect that GMs make up maybe 1% of the player base, so what we consider massive is less so to Bliz). However, reverting the flags would require a database change to put back the fields that are now history. A solid rule that smart companies follow during software upgrades is that you NEVER make a database change at the last minute, because it can cause way more damage than you can imagine if anything goes wrong. Thus, I think Bliz is truly listening to us but can't do anything until the first post-patch. Fixing things like this in a hotfix has probably been the root cause of major fiascos in the past, so no amount of yelling or pleading will make them risk the other 99% of their user base, and they will fix this when the expansion is out and relatively stable. My biggest frustration right now is that I don't see the downside of Bliz admitting they made a booboo and explaining that the will fix it "soon", other than the fact that the discussion would undoubtedly immediately turn to trying to name and shame the programmers, which would be misguided.
All that said, add me to the list of GM that are insisting this change be reverted since it is really screwing up my vision of how my guild should work, and causing my guildies conniptions as a result.
Very well said and makes 100% sense coming from a developers stand point. Thanks for taking the time to explain and share your experiences and how the back end works.
Stop taking away player choice, Blizzard.
R E V E R T
Entertainers of Bliz-ARD!
I demand that you render these so-called improvements OBSOLETE!
DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!
I demand that you render these so-called improvements OBSOLETE!
DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!
So from what I see its a partial lump together. Guild Roster and guild Bank permissions are still there under "Rank Permissions". It is the other 2 that got clumped. In the first screenshot there are permissions under where it is cut off. Idk if that was added after this thread was made or not but just a heads up. That being said, I am curious of the other two sections being lumped into one checkbox (guild Chat and Guild Information").