I don't necessarily want the guild interface reverted, I just want it fixed and improved.
I never liked clicking like, what, 6 times to remove an inactive member after you broke all the guild pruning addons.
Promotions and demotions were no better after you broke the addons that used to let me do that automatically based on rules.
Why not make GM's lives a little easier instead of harder?
The guild changes with BfA are disappointing, frustrating, and mostly a step backwards.
I feel like they took a look at all the numbers and realized that hardcore raiders are a small and dying breed,not quite the same thing but everything is moving to a more casual play style. I just did a mog run in bastion, and it was like, "oh yeah, I forgot they added a whole extra boss just for the hardcore", same thing with Lei shen.
I'm not a hardcore raider anymore, about as casual as raiders come, but I've read/watched enough to know the incentive outside of challenge is all but gone. I guess the challenge should be enough but it's still a little sad to recognize.
I'm not a hardcore raider anymore, about as casual as raiders come, but I've read/watched enough to know the incentive outside of challenge is all but gone. I guess the challenge should be enough but it's still a little sad to recognize.
08/02/2018 10:14 PMPosted by SweepI feel like they took a look at all the numbers and realized that hardcore raiders are a small and dying breed,not quite the same thing but everything is moving to a more casual play style. I just did a mog run in bastion, and it was like, "oh yeah, I forgot they added a whole extra boss just for the hardcore", same thing with Lei shen.
I'm not a hardcore raider anymore, about as casual as raiders come, but I've read/watched enough to know the incentive outside of challenge is all but gone. I guess the challenge should be enough but it's still a little sad to recognize.
Sorry, but I fail to understand how this thread has to do with core raiding or casual vs hardcore play. Maybe i'm missing the point?
The changes to guild rank permissions introduced in 8.0 takes choice away from players and guilds of all scopes. I'm impartial to the communities UI. Guild permissions need to be granular and expanded upon, not stripped down and consolidated.
I have a suggestion, and maybe this will be the answer.
I don't exactly mind the change and can see where it would be useful. However, it still disrupts the way I run my guild.
I personally would not have minded the change IF there was an "Advanced" option tab, or check box that unbundles the Officer privileges. So that way you can have a simple version and the original version with all the options.
The fact that I have to resort to addons to circumvent the change that was made is sad. I'd rather not run 101 addons if I don't have to.
I don't exactly mind the change and can see where it would be useful. However, it still disrupts the way I run my guild.
I personally would not have minded the change IF there was an "Advanced" option tab, or check box that unbundles the Officer privileges. So that way you can have a simple version and the original version with all the options.
The fact that I have to resort to addons to circumvent the change that was made is sad. I'd rather not run 101 addons if I don't have to.
08/02/2018 11:09 PMPosted by IranniaI personally would not have minded the change IF there was an "Advanced" option tab, or check box that unbundles the Officer privileges. So that way you can have a simple version and the original version with all the options.
The fact that I have to resort to addons to circumvent the change that was made is sad. I'd rather not run 101 addons if I don't have to.
I'm actually ok with an Advanced option too. My issue is that I don't want the loss of functionality that we're seeing in the current iteration of the permissions.
If it's easier from a technical perspective to revert, then I'd support reverting. If it's easier to just start over and restore what we used to have while adding in a few new things (like inviting offline characters), then I would support that.
I mostly just want the old functionality back asap. Improvements can be step two.
08/02/2018 11:09 PMPosted by IranniaI have a suggestion, and maybe this will be the answer.
I don't exactly mind the change and can see where it would be useful. However, it still disrupts the way I run my guild.
I personally would not have minded the change IF there was an "Advanced" option tab, or check box that unbundles the Officer privileges. So that way you can have a simple version and the original version with all the options.
The fact that I have to resort to addons to circumvent the change that was made is sad. I'd rather not run 101 addons if I don't have to.
Here, here!
Back to the top. I broke my streak but I'll start again.
08/02/2018 12:36 PMPosted by FumelI don't believe this at all.08/02/2018 10:53 AMPosted by Draical...
Because they don't care. it's rather clear that the changes are staying.
You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.
Guild Masters have been asking for more permissions and small details added to guilds for years now and the only thing Blizzard has done in regards to guilds is remove features. They haven't added anything for guilds in ages. We don't even have a proper "guild finder" feature that players have asked about for years.
If for some reason you think Blizzard is actually looking out for us then I applaud you on having faith, even though your faith is a joke, it's still faith in something.
Posted the following to twitter:
"World of Warcraft patch 8.0 recently added one-size-fits-all Guild Permission setting "IsOfficer", its hurting your players and not one game representative has posted a word about a fix. Here is a 46 page, 900+ post thread, help please!: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1"
Sent to:
@WatcherDev
@WarcraftDevs
@BlizzardCS
@Muffinus
@MikeMorhaime
@BobbyKotick
@Devolore
@DaveKosak
Since twitter was created to be a direct line for emergencies like this I feel that its our responsibility to pass along the information in this thread to as many people as possible to fix the issue. With all the faction hate going on due to this expansion this post will sooner or later be drowned out by the hype train for the expansion and the bug/problem will remain unfixed.
If any Blizzard reps do read this thread understand that this is an issue that has been going on for at least two weeks but as a beta tester and ptr user I have complained about these issues earlier. Also the silence regarding this problem is a major distraction for many players who would just like to enjoy the game. People who have been loyal customers for over eight years.
Please review the thread and find a way to revert the permission changes for the benefit of the users and the game.
"World of Warcraft patch 8.0 recently added one-size-fits-all Guild Permission setting "IsOfficer", its hurting your players and not one game representative has posted a word about a fix. Here is a 46 page, 900+ post thread, help please!: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1"
Sent to:
@WatcherDev
@WarcraftDevs
@BlizzardCS
@Muffinus
@MikeMorhaime
@BobbyKotick
@Devolore
@DaveKosak
Since twitter was created to be a direct line for emergencies like this I feel that its our responsibility to pass along the information in this thread to as many people as possible to fix the issue. With all the faction hate going on due to this expansion this post will sooner or later be drowned out by the hype train for the expansion and the bug/problem will remain unfixed.
If any Blizzard reps do read this thread understand that this is an issue that has been going on for at least two weeks but as a beta tester and ptr user I have complained about these issues earlier. Also the silence regarding this problem is a major distraction for many players who would just like to enjoy the game. People who have been loyal customers for over eight years.
Please review the thread and find a way to revert the permission changes for the benefit of the users and the game.
Adding in my thought as well. I liked the Guild system the way it was before, customizing options with ranks was nice. Please revert it back Blizzard!
08/03/2018 08:30 AMPosted by GreenstonePosted the following to twitter:
"World of Warcraft patch 8.0 recently added one-size-fits-all Guild Permission setting "IsOfficer", its hurting your players and not one game representative has posted a word about a fix. Here is a 46 page, 900+ post thread, help please!: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=1"
Sent to:
@WatcherDev
@WarcraftDevs
@BlizzardCS
@Muffinus
@MikeMorhaime
@BobbyKotick
@Devolore
@DaveKosak
Since twitter was created to be a direct line for emergencies like this I feel that its our responsibility to pass along the information in this thread to as many people as possible to fix the issue. With all the faction hate going on due to this expansion this post will sooner or later be drowned out by the hype train for the expansion and the bug/problem will remain unfixed.
If any Blizzard reps do read this thread understand that this is an issue that has been going on for at least two weeks but as a beta tester and ptr user I have complained about these issues earlier. Also the silence regarding this problem is a major distraction for many players who would just like to enjoy the game. People who have been loyal customers for over eight years.
Please review the thread and find a way to revert the permission changes for the benefit of the users and the game.
Done! I agree that it is time to broaden the scope of this to other platforms to raise awareness with players and Blizzard.
This change impacts everyone! Casual to hardcore, pvp players to pve, lore seekers to achievment buyers, alliance and horde. Please fix this... for da players!
Earlier in the thread someone made a suggestion and I think this would be the easiest thing:
Add the option to disable the "IsOfficer" permission and use the older permissions instead. A button that says "advanced" that brings up the old permission panel.
Add the option to disable the "IsOfficer" permission and use the older permissions instead. A button that says "advanced" that brings up the old permission panel.
07/24/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Ythisens
This isn't needed as I've extended the thread cap on this one. Thanks guys!
Ythisens I never said thanks for the cap extension, so thanks, but we also need Dev or Blue to comment on this before it gets pushed away by all the hype over the new expansion. I have done my best but I can't get anyone to reply. Save us!
Maybe this is just a lack of developer resources. Looking at the hotfixes rolling out at break neck pace it's pretty obvious they're in damage control mode with this unpolished mess of a premature release.
Updating and modernizing guilds is so long overdue it's absurd. Dedicate some resources to it on a long term basis. Listen to community feedback and suggestions. If you're going to break guild addons that made managing guilds easier at least do some work on your end to replace that functionality or a way for addons to be fixed to work again. With 7.3 you broke so many guild addons and never provided any alternatives. Sad.
Updating and modernizing guilds is so long overdue it's absurd. Dedicate some resources to it on a long term basis. Listen to community feedback and suggestions. If you're going to break guild addons that made managing guilds easier at least do some work on your end to replace that functionality or a way for addons to be fixed to work again. With 7.3 you broke so many guild addons and never provided any alternatives. Sad.
08/02/2018 07:57 AMPosted by TrilliamWhy do computer programmers think it's an advance to make something more complicated and give it a bunch of features that nobody wants while either deleting old and useful features, or fixing things so that you have to do one heck of a lot more clicking to get at the stuff you want.
Computer programmers DON'T do this. This goes against every core ethic about programming that has ever existed. The number one "oath" it breaks is the one that says: "I <state your name> do solemnly swear that I shall never add features that my users did not ask for nor shall I remove features that my user relies on in the performance of their tasks."
The main reason programmers do not do this is because we are lazy. Lazy programming means not adding more to a program than is necessary for it to complete all of its functions. It means not taking out features because that's hard work to make sure removing functionality doesn't break other functionality and removing or reducing features or feature sets means complaints from my users until they are retrained to use the software the way I envisioned it being used. Since I had to train them how to use the software the first time around (or my company had to hire someone to train them) having to retrain them because I found a way that I like better is only going to cause me to do more work than I signed on for.
Change in code for change's sake is almost always an indication of a program development team with too much time on their hands. Better to reduce the number of programmers (you don't have to pay them if you let them go) to the appropriate levels than to allow them to find their own busy work and make life harder for the users than they already are.
08/02/2018 08:02 AMPosted by GreenstoneAgain the OP was very precise regarding what the issue is:
> New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
> Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png
The new permissions break the way guilds normally control ranks, promote people, give rewards, control raid teams, add notes, even control civility in the game, removing much of the said control a traditional guild has.
In this thread we have explained how this issue continues to cause problems for us, I personally have gone to Twitter and messaged multiple devs and found websites who have pointed out the flaws with the new system.
We still have not received one solid Blue / Dev response over this issue.
Although at least two MVP's in the forum communities have spoken for us.
Please Blizzard I understand you are very busy regarding the new expansion, I understand you have the big reveals coming before the release however this shouldn't be a problem that continues until that time.
The permissions need to be fixed and either reverted back to their original panel or changed so that we have more granularity in a new permissions panel.
The Community UI panel works but again its like an abomination with parts thrown in together for no real reason. The older panel presented more information about guild users, such as a complete list of who is exhaulted with the guild, how many users are on versus how many users are in the guild, in a smaller footprint. (Type /groster in game to see the smaller panel.)
Its true Guildmasters can have control over communities they create for themselves, and that is awesome, but in reality its meant for everyone to be able to use and create groups. Its basically a more visible form of channel creation in the game, which I illustrated earlier in this thread. This in essence makes it non-guild related interface, since players can create their own communities and do whatever they want with them.
Worse part is while communities seem related to guilds they can be used to undermine rather than support a guild. I illustrated this earlier by listing the abuses of such a system. So while the implementation of communities as they are works it does not work in conjunction with Guild Control so having them pushed together into one interface actually covers up the issues that come about.
For example: if I make people a leader / moderator of my community channel that does not necessarily mean they are leaders in the guild. Which is awesome, however the permissions that you guys set up in the guild controls seem to have wanted to tie up the two. You can't do that because not all players are officers in the guild.
So again please fix the permissions because it seems like the permissions were a jumble you had one way of thinking about communities and another about guilds and someone made a mistake or tried to implement the same set of rules for both and that doesn't work.
Revert the old permissions allow us to choose the old guild interface from a button at the bottom of the community panel and remove all the extra fluff of guilds in the community panel. Give us a solid separation between the two.
If later on you want to update the guild roster window you can do so but establish that communities and guild control are separate.
This ^
I'm assuming you didn't really intend a personal insult, but it's pretty hard not to take "your faith is a joke" any other way. If you honestly feel this bad about Blizzard and the game, maybe you need to take a break.08/03/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Draical08/02/2018 12:36 PMPosted by Fumel...I don't believe this at all.
You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.
Guild Masters have been asking for more permissions and small details added to guilds for years now and the only thing Blizzard has done in regards to guilds is remove features. They haven't added anything for guilds in ages. We don't even have a proper "guild finder" feature that players have asked about for years.
If for some reason you think Blizzard is actually looking out for us then I applaud you on having faith, even though your faith is a joke, it's still faith in something.
I never said (and I never thought) that "Blizzard is actually looking out for us." I think they're a gaming company that is trying to put out a good game. I don't see that "looking out" for players is anything they should be doing. They should be working on their game, making it the best it can be.
There are serious problems with the guild UI. Blizzard is surely aware of this. I can't believe that they intend to leave things this way, but I also believe they have a lot of other game play issues to deal with right now. They can't afford to put the entire WoW team on this problem. It may only have one person--who has other projects as well--working on it right now.
The main thing I'd like to know--and I think most people here would like to know as well--is that they are working on it. That the current guild UI is a work in progress, and not carved in stone. That our complaints are being heard and our suggestions being noted.
That's really all I want, for now.
Bump
Now that I think about it, it's not just the guild controls I want back, I want Bliz to give tangible incentives to guilds. I mean, we are already rewarded gold for "guild runs". Why not actual higher chances on extra drops, or unique "guild run only" cosmetic loot? Something, ANYTHING, to add incentive to being in and maintaining active guilds.