The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
3516

Great conversation here.

Good and even great points made and I agree with many of them.

I’ve mentioned all this previously, so i wont (i hope) go into great detail.

Suffice it to say that sub numbers may be directly affected.

As most of the regular posters here know, my guild has decided to set up shop on Classic once it’s live.

BfA is an expansion of questionable quality at best, and for us the broken guild permissions were just the “icing on the cake”

For myself and at least one other guildie of ours (my second) the result of our moving to Classic to start fresh has resulted in us cancelling several of our multiple accounts.

Why?

Although her and I are both card carrying alt-oholics, Classic requires much more focus on leveling just one (maybe two) toons at most really. Having several accounts is fairly pointless.

So while we are technically still subbed, we aren’t subbed as much as we were so to speak.

Between myself, my spouse, and my guildie, I can count off at least 4-5 subs cancelled.

That’s not all.

Until Classic goes live, many of our regular players cancelled their subs “because BfA”
(Side note: One guildie of ours had unsubbed for good. BfA was the final nail in Wow’s coffin to her. Happily for us, the lure of Classic has brought her back)

If I count one sub per guildie, that amounts to… quite a few. Sorry, I don’t know a more exact number off the top of my head, and without consulting the roster, I hesitate to give more specific numbers.

Are we the only guild in a situation like this?

Maybe, but I am doubtful.

As has been said, guilds are the lifeblood of the game. They keep players engaged during content droughts, or in this case during what many consider poor content in general.

During WoD, another “questionable” xpac, we had some drop off, but we were in no way shape of form hurting as a guild.

For us, BfA outdid WoD by a long-shot.

While I can’t say our guild is dead, it is surely suffering.

We simply can not see handing out officer permissions to those who have not earned them.

Therefore not much recruitment has gone on, and few promos have been given.

Again, I think there were many very good points to ponder brought up here in Takoda and Yimzi’s conversation.

Most respectfully, the above is just my two cents. :sunglasses:

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3517

Druunah, I’m sorry if I missed it, but what server were you heading to in Classic?

To keep on topic: Plz revert permissions to Pre-BfA functionality.

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3518

Venjin.
(and for others who have recently asked here, my apologies for not being more prompt with a response)

For Classic, our guild will be setting up on the Bloodsail realm. It is, for better or worse, an Rp realm.

For the record, most of us do not actually Rp. (I don’t) However, after some discussion, we decided that since we are, and have always been, a more laid back “casual” family oriented guild geared more toward people who may or may not be the greatest Wow players, or would rather do things at their own pace and or with trusted guild friends rather than “strangers” and so forth…

We decided to try our luck on an Rp realm as things are often taken a little less seriously there than on other types of realms. We also feel it adds more in-game-flavor to the original fantasy world environment, even if we don’t take a direct part in it.

We are also looking forward to getting ourselves killed hilariously (and often) in ZF, MC, and many other places so we can make that fabled ‘Boneyard Walk of Shame’ as our much missed guildie Jah used to call it.

Because I feel this thread has become it’s own Wow community of sorts over the last year or so, and because some folks have asked:

Anyone interested in finding us there, thus far my Classic toons are:

Dreamze.
She is my new main and (hopefully) keister kicking Nelf warrior Gal. And of course Druunah who is my backup just case I am so old and stuck in my ways I feel a need to revert to the more familiar :grin:

In any event, I can’t wait to make the Wetlands death run from Darnassus To Stormwind! :grinning::thinking::face_with_raised_eyebrow:

For Venjin.

Sadly, one of the Wow accounts I recently closed had most (if not all) of my toons in Rising Sun. I am hoping that I’ll be able to get back to them at some point soon in the relatively near future as I enjoyed my too short a time there very much. If you need to remove them, I of course understand.

Blizzard: To be very clear I have not given up on getting the guild permissions in Retail reverted or even improved upon. It’s my hope that I’ve even helped the other concerned Guild Leaders here a bit in providing some ideas as to how you Blizzard can do that over the last year.

Regardless of how I feel about many of the decisions made by Blizzard this xpac, I do still enjoy Wow. It’s been my home away from home since the original Vanilla.

We as a guild just feel that we’re better off in Classic at least for now as we’ll be able to do things as we always have there.

Honestly, this experience is so odd for me. I feel as if I was almost forced from my home, yet I also feel as if I am going home.

As someone fortunate enough to have taken part in a couple of the recent Classic Beta Stress tests, I say to you Blizzard that if you can make the old game so clean, polished and downright exciting, inviting and FUN fifteen years or so after it’s original release, just think of what you could learn from it and perhaps even incorporate into modern Retail…:thinking:

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3519

Please examine the guild control structure of classic and implement suggestions from this thread into retail.

That being said…

Druunah:
Okey doke, I’ll peek my head there. Probably go with a Lock or Rogue since they were my originals before spamming for a Scholo Tank got mind-numbingly frustrating lol.

And don’t worry about RS, we’re on definite hiatus since all our RL friends dropped WoW. Grahams has some ideas of rebuilding in the manner of how we did in TBC but nothing is set in stone until permissions are fixed (hence why she’s considering other games).

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3520

Here’s a nice, clear, simple suggestion from September:

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3521

I can no longer remember if this suggestion has been posted or not. Maybe someone else can lol. But it would be really nice if we could get a way to designate a new member rank.

Currently, I have an inactive/discipline rank called “In the Dream.” This rank has restricted permissions and bank access. I don’t want new members on this rank, so I had to structure my ranks like this:

1: Brave (Lowest rank - new members here)
2: In the Dream (inactive/discipline rank)
3: Higher ranks

The problem with this structure is that when I move someone from Brave to In the Dream, the game calls it a promotion, even though in reality it is a demotion. I chose to deal with this, rather than having to give instant promotions to new members because I feel that instant promotions leads to even more problems.

I would prefer to be able to structure my ranks like this:

1: In the Dream (inactive/discipline rank)
2: Brave (Lowest rank - new members here)
3: Higher ranks

We just need a checkbox for “New Members Here” to designate a rank. (GW2 has this option if you’d like to see an example.) And it can default to the lowest rank if the GM doesn’t select a rank.

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3522

Never hurts to repeat a suggestion, as Fumel has been proving.

I think an inactive/discipline rank should actually be separate from regular ranks, more on the lines of permissions. You can check the box for inactive/discipline, and the character instantly goes there from whatever rank it had. The New Member rank would still be the lowest rank, automatically applied upon joining.

However it’s done, you’re right that new members should be above inactive/disciplined members.

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3523

That would work too. If Blizzard adds a role system in addition to the rank system, this could be possible. I know that’s something that has been discussed here before.

I’m not picky. I just want my new members to automatically go to the right rank, and I want troublemakers to stop being told they are promoted for their misdeeds. It’s not right to have to choose between these two goals.

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3524

Here is another post from July last year regarding roles and ranks:

Is anyone else hoping that now that Classic has launched, Blizz will start paying more attention to our issues?

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3525

" (Y’all are going to have to post something every now and then if you want this thread to stay alive.)"

Thanks for reminding me. I’ve made a note to come here and boost this every so often.

These are excellent suggestions. I know they get read but I’ve little hope they will be implemented. It still feels like lip service is paid to guilds even though they started as the backbone of the classic experience.

We’ll see.

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3526

I’m not sure what makes you think the launching of Classic will change much of anything right now in retail, it’s business as usual except for a few techs making sure certain lights don’t start blinking like they shouldn’t on the panel.

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3527

The new guild UI sometimes doesn’t let me promote or edit notes either. I have to type /groster to bring up the old menu, which works perfectly fine but I want the old default back.

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3528

Oh, I didn’t think anything, I was just hoping. I know they were focused on getting Classic out, and I hoped now that it’s live they’ll be able to spare a dev or two for our problems. But I’m certainly not expecting it.

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3529

Suggestion: Guild Banner Mount Equipment.

A piece of mount equipment that attaches a banner with your guild crest to your mount.

Oh and fix the permissions.

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3530

I tell you what, Blizz.

You get these danged permissions fixed and I’ll take my butt back to LFG and start tanking for random people again to help them with their “1-hour queues” and I’ll just shut out the rude people. Heck, I’ll even try my hand at tanking LFR!

Deal?

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3531

Here is another great post from July detailing this poster’s issues with the changes and giving some suggestions for further improvement:

I don’t know how the guild UI is working in Classic. I assume it’s the old one. Maybe some of our “regulars” here that are playing Classic can give a comparison between the the two versions of Guild controls, with perhaps some real life examples of how the permissions in Classic are working out.

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3532

The guild ui in Classic is as it should be.

Permissions are granular.

There is however, no guild bank so no permissions for it exist in Classic

Officers are officers, initiates are initiates, the “in betweens” are in-between and not also “(is) officer” unless specifically designated as such.

Some officer ranks have more privileges than others, some “not officer” ranks have more (or less) privileges than others.

In Classic, we have been able to restore what we lost in Retail insofar as the ranks are now able to be used as a rewards system.

In other words, if you are active and helpful to the guild, you will very likely gain trust and more responsibility, and will be rewarded with a higher rank and thus more privileges within the guild.

Simply, if you are a solo player and don’t take part in some way with the guild, you will be very welcome, however you will likely not rank far if at all.

Some people don’t want rank and or responsibility, some do.

Also. You can not go from initiate rank to “is officer” in one shot, any more than a mailroom flunky at a major corporation can start work sorting letters one day to being promoted to a community manager position the next…

At this time, we personally as a guild have Incorporated the use of seven (7) ranks. They are very specifically tailored so that each one has a bit more privilege than the one below it. Promotions actually mean so much more now, and each step in rank has far more significance than it does today in Retail.

This will give guildies who wish to have more responsibilities and privileges incentive.

It also helps the leadership of the guild more easily discover who actually wants more responsibility as well as who can actually be trusted when given those responsibilities, and who should perhaps keep to the lower ranks.

It’s not foolproof of course. But even without guild bank permissions, it’s still (in my opinion as a long time Guild Leader) a far sight better than what Retail Wow offers now.

I wanted to give some examples of how we’ve actually used the ranks so far. The problem is, is that we only just managed to get the guild formed about a day and a half or so ago, and we’ve not had time yet to really do much ranking.

That being said, as Gm I do have my eye on at least one new guildie already (in a good way)

Slight back story: As I’ve previously stated here, although we are as a whole not rp’ers, and we were originally based on a "normal PvE realm, we as a guild group decided to set up our new guild on an Rp server for various reasons.

The person that I have my Gm eye on almost immediately made it known to me that they would be interested in helping to set up guild events and educating the non-rp’ers among us (ie: me) about such things.

(When in Rome…)

If this person follows through, they are likely to to go far (rank up) in our new Classic guild.

On the other hand, in contrast there is at least one new guildie that has been very quiet since their invitation. They have not responded to any guildie or myself as yet since they were invited.

This happens, and there’s not necessarily anything wrong with that. As a long time Gm I personally have seen a lot of this sort of person and I have no problem whatsoever with them being in the guild.

However, the quiet player who wont (or can’t for whatever reason) take part wont rank far or at all.

I hope this post was at least somewhat helpful.

Side note:

We’re very much enjoying our time on Classic so far.

After only briefly playing, it can easily be seen how much Wow has lost as an MMO over the years. People are constantly (I do mean this literally) discussing it in every chat, in every zone I have had the chance to visit so far. People generally seem to be very happy, amazed, excited, enthusiastic, fun, helpful, and most seem to be genuinely loving their Classic experience including the community aspect that comes along with it that has been so buried if not lost altogether in Retail.

I hope Blizzard can learn something.

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3533

Just a heads up Druunah, I fully intend on finding you on Classic, I’ve just got a lot of stuff on my plate (I had to sleeve 13 full commander decks the other night!).

In the meantime Bliz, lets get those old functions back into retail!

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3534

Woah, I left shortly after this happened. All this time later and they still haven’t fixed the broken guild permissions?

This is nonsense.

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3535

Sadly, the only way to come close to the old way is to play on Classic.

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