That isn’t what happened. No one else in this thread (or any reasonable person) would construe my partial quote as an an out of context quote. Especially after having read my argument previously which stated I was pointing out your usage of a logically fallacious argument known formally as argumentum ad passiones or appeal to emotion. The irrelevant (to my argument) final portion of your sentence was unnecessary to the context and meaning of your quote. I used that portion of your quote that best illustrated the fallacy.
One actually needs to be self aware before they can be aware of actions of their own. Recognizing failures in others is something even children can do.
You want to remove the speck of dirt from my eye? First remove the Roof Truss sticking out of your own so that you might better see that small molecule of foreign matter in mine.
But you haven’t actually done that anytime you have quoted anyone in this thread. You have taken them completely out of context. You can’t help it. Its part of your nature to troll. We get that. We just wish you would take your trolling elsewhere.
The least Bliz could do for the majority here is acknowledge the concrete feedback that has been scattered into this already-too-long thread, and throw the ultimate hammer down: “Yes, we’ve figured out a way to restore granular rank permissions. We’ll look into further improvements to guilds in the future and encourage you to provide further feedback on what you’d like to see.”
I’m personally a bit put out that the thread itself has gotten no real responses from Blizz. Their acknowledgement has all been in off-site interviews or Q&A’s of which many people reading this thread are unaware, thus heightening the impression that Blizzard isn’t paying any attention at all. They really don’t need to make themselves look even more disengaged than they are.
Off Topic: So sorry to hear about the loss of your furry friends. Such a tough thing to deal with so close together. /hugs
I just wish that they would be a little more transparent about what is going on behind the scenes. Maybe a post outlining 2-3 ideas, and asking for input. Or just a written acknowledgement in this thread that they are working on a fix for permissions.
It’s a little ridiculous that we have to wade through an hour long Q&A for something that a blue could post here in like 2 minutes. Here, I’ll even help draft it.
“Hey guys! We appreciate all the feedback that you’ve provided so far. We’ve been working to improve the permissions system, but there are a few technical problems that haven’t been solved just yet. We don’t have a ton of details available now, but Ion will be discussing how we hope to move forward in the Q&A. Looking forward to seeing you there! [insert link here]”
2 minutes to post something, but a whole lot of people waiting to pounce on it and start “angry posting”.
No matter what changes are in plan (for any part of the game) people aren’t going to like it.
There is nothing they can do to permissions which will be universally loved.
…then there is the issue of the unknown time it will take to make changes, test changes, and go forward with it.
eg: the standard forum response to a statement like this:
would be: “if actiblizz hadn’t laid off all those people, maybe they’d have someone smart enough to fix it”.
There’s nothing they can say which will benefit anyone.
I agree. Players would (very predictably) respond with anger. But I still think that posting something similar to what I wrote above is the right way forward.
Though the initial response would be anger, Blizzard needs to anticipate the anger, acknowledge it, face it, and engage with it. It’s only by engaging with that anger head on that they can ever hope to have open communication with their community.
It’s not a pleasant process. I know, because I’ve done it. Fortunately, the company I worked for didn’t let these kinds of things fester for years. They dealt with each angry customer or angry group in real time. There were even a couple of crises / mini-scandals while I was there, and those days were extremely stressful.
Publicly diffusing angry emotions is a tricky thing, but shying away from it is taking the lazy way out. 99% of people just want to be heard and understood. After people feel like someone is listening, then you can have a productive conversation and actually get things done. End result benefits both sides. Players get to actually feel their influence on the direction of the game, and Blizzard gets better feedback for development content, which in turn leads to higher revenue because players are happier.
The anger of the player base is something that Blizzard created by isolating themselves from the players, and by taking FOREVER to do anything about, well, anything. They need to face that, and own the anger. It’s the best way to deliver that “improved communication” that they keep promising. It’s also the best way to avoid debacles like, well, guild permissions.
My biggest concern with where this guild situation goes next is that we don’t know what they are thinking. So, the feedback here has…limited…uses. I can describe what I’d like to see, which is something many of us have done. But what I mean and what they interpret could be very different things. Then they iterate internally, don’t speak with us, and by the time we actually see it on the PTR…I’m afraid that it won’t be what any of us wanted.
Blizzard, please talk with us. Back and forth conversation. Don’t waste time making something that won’t be useful. We WANT to help. (Some of us will probably get a bit snippy at first, but that’s just until the shock wears off.)
…but for some, the shock won’t wear off.
It is impossible to please all the people, all the time.
It just can’t happen.
The vast majority of users are seemingly content with the current guild UI.
Any changes made, are going to be a “slap in the face” to the people who currently have no issue with the current design… which starts this fiasco all over again.
Just stopping by to check in, I see nothing changed. It’s been 9 months and 15 days (289 days) since this issue was first brought up and Blizzard still doesn’t have enough feedback. These guys are jokes but the horrible part about this issue is they are still here stringing you guys along pretending to still gather feedback.
See you guys in a few more months to bring the dates back up.
While I strongly doubt the “vast majority of users” are remotely “content”, nearly everyone posting here has recognized that some players might prefer the simple, all-in-one permissions we currently have. Which is why we have been asking for an advanced option tab or toggle that will allow GM’s to choose between granular permissions or the current all-in-one configuration.
Suggesting that this mess shouldn’t be fixed (or that a fix shouldn’t be talked about) because it could upset someone is a pretty poor argument in my opinion.
I prefer to think of my feedback as putting the “joke” on them because I’m not going to stop until either they close down the thread or fix the permissions.
I was quite obviously explaining why it’s absolutely pointless for Blizzard to come along and say “we’re planning on doing x”.
No matter what they say, people are going to be unhappy.
No matter what changes are made, people are going to be unhappy.
No matter how long changes take to implement, people are going to be unhappy.
There is literally nothing they can say which will make anything better.
I must disagree. If they say, “We’ll be adding an ‘advanced options’ tab in the next patch that will allow granular permissions again,” things will definitely be much better.
Come now. You know better than this. You cannot state this without providing both statistic and methodology used to derive said statistic without being laughed out of the thread. Source or it aint so mate.
The players who do not have an issue with this are the ones who either don’t know that it exists or for whom there is no impact to their play style. In the case of the latter these were also the players who had no issue with the way it was previously. Therefore the ones who do know it exists and are unhappy with it are the only ones likely to have any reaction (and that reaction would be positive) if it were reverted.
The very few (two at last count) who might be impacted negatively (and that only because they would lose a topic on the forums that they could troll) would be You and Cheheals.
Its just a guess of course but I’d be willing to back that guess up with cash that Blizzard wouldn’t miss you two for a single instant.
is “this” the current UI?
or is “this” relating to possible changes which remain unknown?
…because based on the rest of your post, I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say.
Do you understand that there are people who are content with the UI as it is, and would prefer development time be sunk into other more pressing issues?
aaand here we go.
Anyone who dares to share anything which does not align with your biased view, is somehow a “troll”.
Think that… but by naming and making these sorts of accusations, know that YOU are the one trolling.
The Current Design. Since I quoted your post and then replied to that post the “this” implies the subject of what YOU stated. If you can’t spend the time to learn how to follow basic grammar and context then I don’t know how to help you.
Since no one (and I mean NO ONE) asked for them to spend development time and resources on consolidating guild permissions into one checkbox it should follow (even for you Nobully) that by “fixing” guild permissions (current state) they spent time effort and money on a change that wasn’t asked for and was determined on the PTR and the Beta by the player base that it was going to cause problems and was a wholly unnecessary change. They literally broke something that was working pretty good and did so for no net benefit to anyone including the developers.
Therefore the ones who were fine with the change now would be fine with that change if that change were reverted and the relatively small cost to do so would simply be a show of good faith on the part of the developers that “hey we made a mistake” (acknowledging the error as an error on their part) and then implementing a reversion (taking an action to correct the error). Would go quite a ways with guild leaders who are impacted to rebuilding that all important customer developer relationship. Elune knows Blizzard right now could use a better relationship with its customers because have ya seen the Q1 2019 earnings report?! Ouch!