The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

You have options. Just need to pick the one that works best for you.

So true.

I have 6 month recurring subs on my two accounts. I let a third account drop a while back. (I got it for my husband but he’s really not interested.)

I don’t have any sort of television or streaming services, so WoW is my main entertainment expense. Pretty much my only one, really. I’ll miss it once it dies completely, but it feels like Blizzard is doing its best to soften the blow by making me care less and less about the game. Silver lining, I guess?

[Raiyyn-lothar]

Really? Hmmm.

I am curious as to what I am missing here.

How does that work?

I haven’t given them any real life money.

My money is still in my bank account since I did not give it to Blizzard.

You may not have spent your own money, but someone spent their money to buy the token you purchased from the AH. That person spent $20 for the token then listed it on the AH. A regular 30 day sub is “regularly” $13 - $15, depending on how it’s purchased (6, 3, or 1 month at a time). A token is always $20.

So…

When you buy a token your money does, in fact, remain in your pocket (bank, shoe box, whatever) but Blizzard was still paid for that game time by someone who purchased the token for you to buy at a rate of $5 to $7 above what you would have spent if you’d paid cash rather than game gold.

If you honestly think you’re taking money from Blizz by purchasing tokens you are very much mistaken. You’re actually allowing them to earn more money.

[Druunah-ravencrest (Druunah)]

If you honestly think you’re taking money from Blizz by purchasing tokens you are very much mistaken. You’re actually allowing them to earn more money.

Every token for sale on the AH was purchased by a player for $20. When you buy it, you get $15 worth of Blizzard balance that you can apply toward game time or other things in the Blizzard store. Blizzard gets $20. You get game time. Blizzard gets $5 more revenue than if you bought the time yourself. The player who put the token in the AH paid the $5 difference so they could have more in-game gold.

Thank you Brahmina for that very kind, lucid and very valid explanation.

My intention was to deprive Blizzard of money, yet it seems I have only given them even more than usual much to my irritation.

Thanks Railyyn

However, as you can see, the situation was already explained, and understood completely.

I should have realized Blizz would always have a way to not only “earn” money this way, but even more of it. (Seems sorta borderline unethical on their part to me)

Brahmina shared some interesting ways to deprive Blizzard of cash.

I’ll be looking into them.

[Venjin-bronzebeard (Venjin)]

If we must shout to be heard, then…

[Hippiesluvme-arygos]

As a guild leader, I’ve been following this post for quite some time, and I can honestly say, I am not surprised by the lack of “communication” (if that’s what they want to call it) on Blizz’s part. They know they screwed something up, and being the immature people they are, are hiding with their tails tucked.

That being said, people have stated we aren’t being loud enough or not being heard, and with 2709 posts as to this writing, I find that hard to believe Blizz hasn’t replied at all. So here is my suggestion. How about everytime a Blue responds to ANY issue/suggestion on the forums, we make a reply with their messages quoted. Our reply should be along the lines of “Nice Feedback here, how bout some on this issue too (link this topic)”. Seriously, with almost 3k posts/replies and nothing out of blizz, we are being loud, lets start being annoying. Ruffle some feathers, because Blizz doesn’t worry about ruffling ours, time to show them who pays their bills.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

Seems sorta borderline unethical on their part to me

When I posted I hadn’t gone through every post in the thread and didn’t see those. Sorry for repeating something I wasn’t aware that you knew from your original post, Druulnah.

Although, this brings up a question in my mind…

How, exactly, is charging money for a provided service “borderline unethical”?

Game Time subscription is $13-$15 (depending on how many months you buy at once).

Tokens are $20 (provide those who can’t afford to, or don’t want to, pay cash a way to play and allow for gold to be purchased in a way that doesn’t put your account in danger of being hacked).

To me, it’s a win-win for everyone.

If you want to deprive Blizz of money for something you don’t enjoy your only option is to stop playing. But honestly, I’ve never understood why people continue to do things they don’t enjoy regardless of the monetary (or lack thereof) cost. To me, the “cost” of my time for something I don’t enjoy is much more expensive than a few dollars. But, like I said…that’s just me.

[Dlaciabia-sisters-of-elune (Dlaciabia)]

Eh, I scrolled way, way down, and only 4 topics have a Blizz response icon, this being one of them. >_>

I guess we could all try it in the “GD Lounge” whatchamacallit, but, that runs the risk of being considered spamming, probably.

Someone there at Blizz, hey! * bangs pots and pans together *
Is a fix in the works or is it never going to be changed? Just have the chutzpah to tell us that, at least! For touting better communication, you’re doing an astounding job of NOT DOING THAT AT ALL.

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

I kind of wish .gifs actually could get their attention. At this point, I don’t think blaring sirens would do any good.

I guess we could all try it in the “GD Lounge” whatchamacallit,

Maybe we could retitle our thread “Guild Lounge”?

[Druunah-ravencrest (Druunah)]

Sorry for repeating something I wasn’t aware that you knew from your original post, Druulnah.

How, exactly, is charging money for a provided service “borderline unethical”?

Game Time subscription is $13-$15 (depending on how many months you buy at once).

Tokens are $20 (provide those who can’t afford to, or don’t want to, pay cash a way to play and allow for gold to be purchased in a way that doesn’t put your account in danger of being hacked).

To me, it’s a win-win for everyone.

If you want to deprive Blizz of money for something you don’t enjoy your only option is to stop playing. But honestly, I’ve never understood why people continue to do things they don’t enjoy regardless of the monetary (or lack thereof) cost. To me, the “cost” of my time for something I don’t enjoy is much more expensive than a few dollars. But, like I said…that’s just me.

First off. Thank you.

Secondly. I don’t want to deprive Blizzard of money because I don’t enjoy their game. I in fact enjoy the game and have said so many times here.

The borderline unethical is merely my personal opinion / feeling on the subject.

It seems our opinions differ.

Yep. I admittedly did not understand exactly how tokens work.

I do now.

I may even continue to use them.

As I stated earlier, I like having the extra real life money to play with.

Thanks again for being kind enough to offer assistance earlier.

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

I like having the extra real life money to play with.

Always a good reason to use tokens, imo.

And now, a note to our “sponsors”:

What do we want?
SEPARATED GUILD PERMISSIONS!
When do we want it?
SIX MONTHS AGO!

Hmm, somehow that just doesn’t make a very good protest chant.

[Velara-gilneas (Velara)]

You have options. Just need to pick the one that works best for you.

So true.

I have 6 month recurring subs on my two accounts. I let a third account drop a while back. (I got it for my husband but he’s really not interested.)

I don’t have any sort of television or streaming services, so WoW is my main entertainment expense. Pretty much my only one, really. I’ll miss it once it dies completely, but it feels like Blizzard is doing its best to soften the blow by making me care less and less about the game. Silver lining, I guess?

Happily, there are many other great MMOs out there. ESO, FF14, SWTOR, STO, NWO, RO… Most are free to try; others require buying the client; FF14 requires that and a sub.

However, if MMORPGs are your thing there are plenty out there with development teams primarily interested in player enjoyment.

[Venjin-bronzebeard (Venjin)]

primarily interested in player enjoyment.

I’d happily re-sub if Blizz showed signs of this.

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

Still doing my read-through.
This post from August is ironically funny because, well:

This still needs to be addressed, can we please get a real response.

[Venjin-bronzebeard (Venjin)]

Blizzard, I will pay you a compliment.

As inept as you have been on this matter. As infuriating as your silence has made me. As monumentally dumb this change to guild controls was to begin with…

You will never be as inept as the management team of the New York Knicks.

Now please, elevate yourselves above their level and fix our guild controls.

[Brahmina-khadgar (Brahmina)]

You will never be as inept as the management team of the New York Knicks.

Now please, elevate yourselves above their level and fix our guild controls.

[Nêlsôn-greymane]

You will never be as inept as the management team of the New York Knicks.

Now please, elevate yourselves above their level and fix our guild controls.

[Delirium-bronzebeard (Delirium)]

Lunchtime bumpy. Blizz please tell us what is going on with our guild controls, why was it changed without saying ANYTHING? Why do you ask for feedback and when we give you half a years worth there is no response from you? WHY DO THE BLUE’S NOT RESPOND TO GUILDS IN TROUBLE?! My love of WoW remains but my confidence in Blizz leadership has diminished TONS…FIX OUR GUILD CONTROLS PLEASE or TELL US WHY OR WHY NOT! Blizz…help us help you!

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

So, I’m continuing my read-through and finding post after post asking for the permissions to be separated out, giving excellent reasons why having them lumped together doesn’t work, etc. Then I find this one (still in August):

I’ve accepted the fact that these horrible changes will stay, I just wish Blizzard would use some of that improved communication they have been talking about the last couple of years and explain why this issue came to be and why it’s better than what we had before.

Even though I still have hope that we can get the permissions separated, I have to agree 100% with the rest of the post. IF the all-in-one permissions are intentional and there are no changes planned, guild masters deserve to know the thinking behind this change and how it’s better for guild management.

Yeah, Che keeps saying it is, but even he hasn’t explained how we’re supposed to make it work. So, if you’re not going to fix this Blizz, at least tell us what you were thinking and explain why having all the permissions lumped together is better than allowing each guild master to run their guilds and assign permissions as they wish.

[Takoda-kul-tiras (Takoda)]

Update?

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

OMG, that’s PURRFECT!

How can they possibly ignore us now?