The double down on PL today at the Q&A has removed all my hope.
I don't have anything against PL; I just feel that guilds should be ones to decide which system works best for them.
11/03/2018 05:13 PMPosted by MceuanThe double down on PL today at the Q&A has removed all my hope.
I don't have anything against PL; I just feel that guilds should be ones to decide which system works best for them.
Yup. Unfortunately again, when it comes to loot, Blizz heard a *ton* of complaints from people gettin' jobbed by players with bad intentions...
Good people like most of us, handing out loot fairly, using DKP honestly, it was never an issue I'm sure. However when I was regular guildie, and later an officer in other guilds I ran into those bad apples actually cheating on DKP, using exotic addons (remember "suicide kings"? lol....), and again stealing from their guildies. It's a shame we are constantly reduced to the lowest common denominator. The internet can bring out the worst in some...
I don't really raid, so PL has little effect on me, but I'm sure that guilds doing harder content chafe at the removal, and that's what irks me about it: the removal of choice. Give people a choice between going with others that want either PL or Master Loot. Just cutting choice out leaning one way or the other is hamfisted.
I had high hopes that Blizzard would answer our question about reverting the guild ui and permission changes at Blizzcon- sadly, it was not the case. I remain hopeful that they'll give us an answer someday, because I personally don't plan to let this go. The changes were unnecessary and have caused more frustration than they've brought efficiency or helpfulness.
Please revert the changes.
Please revert the changes.
I was hoping it would be addressed also.
Continuing to remove choice and/or agency, however you would like to define that, from guild leadership is unhealthy for the guild. Healthy guilds have previously been defined as pillars of the game. I fear we are now like tanks; Blizzard knows we need to be there, but they haven't defined our role or purpose.
In the meantime, I'm looking at other alternatives for my people. Very few in my guild are content with this expansion.
Continuing to remove choice and/or agency, however you would like to define that, from guild leadership is unhealthy for the guild. Healthy guilds have previously been defined as pillars of the game. I fear we are now like tanks; Blizzard knows we need to be there, but they haven't defined our role or purpose.
In the meantime, I'm looking at other alternatives for my people. Very few in my guild are content with this expansion.
Continuing my read-through, looking for other folks' suggestions on guild improvements. This post from page42 offers suggestions about the guild bank tab (in addition to wanting the permissions reverted):
I realize some of these posts might be sounding repetitive. I'm guessing it's probably because most people want pretty much the same things for their guilds. The good part about that is it shouldn't be hard to figure out which suggestions to follow. :)
07/30/2018 09:24 PMPosted by WretchedmistPosting here again to express my disdain with the changes. I've already made a few posts. I've been the guild master of Obsidian Spur since TBC and have been an officer in the guild since Vanilla.
To summarize:
(1) Revert the guild system permissions back to the way it was, allowing guild masters to assign permissions individually.
(2) Add a complete log/record system for the guild bank so the guild master (and perhaps officers) can keep track of cumulative records on gold deposits, repairs, withdraws, item deposits, and item withdraws. You know, stuff that will actually help guild masters and their chosen leadership manage their guild. If you can keep a statistics tab with all kinds of totally useless information for my character dating back to the start of the stats system, you can add a simple feature that lets me keep track of a few total guild bank records.
(3) Guild masters will determine what it means to be an "officer" in their respective guilds, not some Blizzard employee(s). I don't need clumsy, one-size-fits-all, top-down interventions imposed upon our community. Give us customization, let us manage at the local level, and then get the Hell out. Let us do our business.
It's a simple UI change but it's a giant thorn in my side since patch 8.0. Please address this sooner than later and start by simply reverting the permissions system.
I realize some of these posts might be sounding repetitive. I'm guessing it's probably because most people want pretty much the same things for their guilds. The good part about that is it shouldn't be hard to figure out which suggestions to follow. :)
Checking in again to make sure my voice is heard. Everyone contributing to this discussion needs to keep doing so. So far we've been ignored.
As of right now, I haven't assigned anyone in our guild with the "Is Officer" box since there are certain permissions I will not assign to anyone in the guild, regardless of rank. As a result of this, nobody in the guild has access to any of those eight privileges since they're all lumped together in a one-size-fits-all definition of an officer, as defined by someone at Blizzard's WoW team.
Please give us the individual permission customization we had prior to patch 8.0. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.
For further recommendations to help guild management, add a complete log/record system for the guild bank so the guild master can keep track of cumulative records on gold deposits, gold repairs, gold withdraws, item deposits, and item withdraws. If WoW developers can create and maintain a statistics tab with all kinds of totally useless information for my character, they can add a simple feature that lets me keep track of a few guild bank records. That would actually help guilds. Many other recommendations have already been made in this thread.
Please address this problem sooner than later. This thread began on July 17. We're now at November 4. I'm not asking for an apology. Just revert the permissions change. That's it. Many people have already given detailed explanations and feedback here over these 103 pages. You have what you need, and the "discussion" has already occurred. Read it, and pass the information along to the next group of people who need to make the correction. Failure to do so will just further the stereotypes of poor communication at Activision Blizzard. This disconnect from your community was just recently demonstrated (again) at Blizzcon with the mobile Diablo announcement.
I will continue to check in here until the change is made. Everyone else needs to do so, too.
As of right now, I haven't assigned anyone in our guild with the "Is Officer" box since there are certain permissions I will not assign to anyone in the guild, regardless of rank. As a result of this, nobody in the guild has access to any of those eight privileges since they're all lumped together in a one-size-fits-all definition of an officer, as defined by someone at Blizzard's WoW team.
Please give us the individual permission customization we had prior to patch 8.0. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.
For further recommendations to help guild management, add a complete log/record system for the guild bank so the guild master can keep track of cumulative records on gold deposits, gold repairs, gold withdraws, item deposits, and item withdraws. If WoW developers can create and maintain a statistics tab with all kinds of totally useless information for my character, they can add a simple feature that lets me keep track of a few guild bank records. That would actually help guilds. Many other recommendations have already been made in this thread.
Please address this problem sooner than later. This thread began on July 17. We're now at November 4. I'm not asking for an apology. Just revert the permissions change. That's it. Many people have already given detailed explanations and feedback here over these 103 pages. You have what you need, and the "discussion" has already occurred. Read it, and pass the information along to the next group of people who need to make the correction. Failure to do so will just further the stereotypes of poor communication at Activision Blizzard. This disconnect from your community was just recently demonstrated (again) at Blizzcon with the mobile Diablo announcement.
I will continue to check in here until the change is made. Everyone else needs to do so, too.
Just checking if a blue response has been made
Disappointing it hasn't
Disappointing it hasn't
11/04/2018 08:49 PMPosted by WretchedmistChecking in again to make sure my voice is heard. Everyone contributing to this discussion needs to keep doing so.
Agreed.
This is great advice.
Even of you've already said it, asked it, complained about it, suggested it, etc...do it again.
(After all. Blizzard asked us to....)
/Sigh.
Many of the posts on my read through are complaints about lack of feedback from Blizzard. Most of the rest are simply asking for a reversion of the all-in-one permissions. It's kind of ironic that nothing has changed over these months.
Well, that's not completely true. Blizzard did fix some of the issues, like not being able to post one's own public note. But just because the problem used to be worse doesn't mean it's all better now.
Here is a post from a Guild Leader on page 43 that details how the changes have affected their guild. This is only a partial quote, so if you want to read the whole thing, click the poster's name:
Guild controls must be flexible so that guild leaders can run things in a way that fits their guild. All-in-one permissions are a road block to effective guild management. It's really that simple.
Well, that's not completely true. Blizzard did fix some of the issues, like not being able to post one's own public note. But just because the problem used to be worse doesn't mean it's all better now.
Here is a post from a Guild Leader on page 43 that details how the changes have affected their guild. This is only a partial quote, so if you want to read the whole thing, click the poster's name:
I confess I believe Blizzard understands the problem now--at least I hope they do. I mostly quote posts like the above to raise awareness among players. Every guild is different, and one size does not fit all. We've even had at least one guild leader posting in this thread who doesn't seem to grasp that. So, I'll continue quoting posts that explain the issues.08/01/2018 12:30 AMPosted by IranniaFor years Guild Leaders have been able to modify and give privileges to whatever rank in the guild.
Case in point:
Officer Chat and Officer Notes:
You could give anyone this privilege. RP guilds use if for RP or for Non-RP conversation. My guild uses it during raid to discuss strategies, problematic teammates, or just vent when things aren't going well. In short conversations that should remain in the Officer Core.
Why is this an issue?
This does not allow a separation in chat for RP guilds. This is important as these players for the most part need to stay in character. However, there are times where they may need to drop character for a question, concern or whatever else may have you.
In Non-RP guilds, you may have a tiered Officer/Leadership Core. I'm one of these guilds. I have essentially two Officer ranks; Officer and Class Leads.
My Officers have roles/jobs in the guild. It's not just a rank to make people feel special. My Officers oversee Raids, PvP (in guild arena tournaments) events, Manage the Guild Vault, and so on.
My Class Leads are more the "Public facing" officers; they help with recruitment, and assist members of the guild with rotations and so forth.
My Officers have access to the Officer Chat and my Class Leads do not. However, my class leads have access to the Officer Notes, this is to allow them to keep track of whether or not someone needs to be promoted or if someone needs help.
Now I'm not able to do that without giving them full privileges when they don't need it.
Public Note:
In the new UI, only "Officers" have access to this. This one I do not understand at all. A player in an RP guild may put something about their character. In my case players would mark their Alts with their Main characters name, ilvl, spec, or professions.
Now because of this only I or my Officers can do this. I have a roster of 255 characters and growing. This makes this a nightmare for me because anyone in my guild can invite players. The only exception to this is Recruits "New Members" and Casuals (in sort lurkers). So if I or an Officer isn't on, a player would just be able to update this note and inform us if they were a Main or Alt, and we could promote accordingly.
This makes managing my roster take twice as long as it did before.
Access to Guild Chat:
This is kind of a silly one, in the sense of "Why would your guild members not have access to your guild's chat?"
Well in some cases, although rarer these days, is if someone gets hacked. Still happens, just not as often. Guild members would demote this person to a rank that would put this person on mute more or less without having to kick them from the guild. Some guilds also use ranks like this as a "time out" or just for giggles.
I don't mind loosing this option but I can see why it was used.
These are the biggest ones for me honestly, and seem to be the biggest gripe among other Guild Leaders.
Other Options Removed:
Adding and Removing Guild Events
Edit Guild Info
Edit Guild Message of the Day
The latter of the two I don't mind overseeing or having my Officers look over this. However, I can see where other Guild Leaders would want those strictly as a Guild Leader responsibility.
Other issues that have come up is that the new UI does not exactly show "Last Online" very well. There has also been rumor that this may be removed. Please, do NOT remove this.
Everyone here who is a Guild Leader or Officer, or has been in the past, knows that keeping an active roster is a healthy roster.
I just want to say that you can still access this for now by typing /groster or /guildroster. This will bring up the older roster format and you can sort players as you would have in the past. Thanks be to whomever for at least that much.
Final Thoughts:
Any "Serious" Guild Leader will tell you that running and maintaining a guild takes real work. It's not something that you just slap together and boom you have a guild. Some people do that, but most do not. I spend hours out of my week doing just this. Specially right now when recruitment is at it's best with returning players, guilds that have "retired" to put politely, and many other factors.
We spend real time thinking about what we want out of our guilds, and what we want our members to be able to get out of it. We, promote people and give them roles to assist us. We give opportunities to our members to grow and opportunities to excel with in these small communities.
We as Guild Leaders know that an active roster is a healthy one. I've stated this much already. What this means is that we are constantly making sure that there is stuff for our members to do, participate in and keep them active. This means we keep them subbed, or at least spending money. This means the pocket books of Blizzard. (I know we are not supposed to call the company out but in this case it can't be helped.)
Why do we do this? Why do we essentially work for a company that we don't get paid by? There are many reasons, one is because we love the game, (mostly). Another, is because we have built a community of people that many of us would consider friends.
Why would you make our "jobs" more difficult?
Guild controls must be flexible so that guild leaders can run things in a way that fits their guild. All-in-one permissions are a road block to effective guild management. It's really that simple.
11/05/2018 08:26 AMPosted by FumelMany of the posts on my read through are complaints about lack of feedback from Blizzard. Most of the rest are simply asking for a reversion of the all-in-one permissions.
There's also been a few posts by some idiot Troll who thinks singing his way into a solution is worthwhile.
That guy is a tool.
When in doubt, sing it out.
11/05/2018 09:35 AMPosted by VenjinThat guy is a tool.
Maybe, maybe not.
I hear his guild has cookies though....
/yum
11/05/2018 08:26 AMPosted by FumelGuild controls must be flexible so that guild leaders can run things in a way that fits their guild. All-in-one permissions are a road block to effective guild management. It's really that simple.
Blizzard:
It really is "that simple"
Please return what you removed, restore what you ruined, fix what you broke, un-bork what you've borked, etc...etc...
Guild leaders have lost agency, which in turn hurts their guilds.
We lost out on the granular permissions from the overhaul of the guild UI and we were forced into PL. They both are the same issue; Blizzard thinks they know best how to run guilds.
This is not wise.
We lost out on the granular permissions from the overhaul of the guild UI and we were forced into PL. They both are the same issue; Blizzard thinks they know best how to run guilds.
This is not wise.
I haven't gotten up to those posts yet. I probably won't bother quoting them. ;)11/05/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Venjin11/05/2018 08:26 AMPosted by FumelMany of the posts on my read through are complaints about lack of feedback from Blizzard. Most of the rest are simply asking for a reversion of the all-in-one permissions.
There's also been a few posts by some idiot Troll who thinks singing his way into a solution is worthwhile.
That guy is a tool.
Anyway, your songs are at least entertaining/enlightening. Much more than I can say for Blizzard's posts. Or should I say, non-posts. Hey, at least they didn't announce that they're putting all guild controls and the entire interface on mobile (but still not separating out the permissions).
Kidding aside, I think many guild leaders wouldn't mind a guild app that would let them do some tasks on their phones. I don't mean continue with the "simplifying" of the UI; I mean in addition to doing things in-game (like having separate permissions).
11/05/2018 09:35 AMPosted by VenjinThat guy is a tool.
...but i love Tool!
also please revert the guild permissions, thanky.
I #vote to revert guild rank permissions to their previous state.
Me and my Co-Gm had a serious conversation about quitting with the guild grind all together yesterday. We had come to the conclusion that the fun part of it for us was structuring a story based hierarchy and awarding those who deserved it with improved permissions.
Now to see that this thread is once again unlocked, I think I will wait some time before I give up all together, but do not tease us Blizz, is there something in the works?
ALSO, this has most likely been brought up, but can we get the permission back to allow members to create guild events. That was a big part of permissions, attainable only by certain ranks, and now everybody and their goldfish can create a guildwide event, if they are in the guild. its a mess.
Thanks!
Now to see that this thread is once again unlocked, I think I will wait some time before I give up all together, but do not tease us Blizz, is there something in the works?
ALSO, this has most likely been brought up, but can we get the permission back to allow members to create guild events. That was a big part of permissions, attainable only by certain ranks, and now everybody and their goldfish can create a guildwide event, if they are in the guild. its a mess.
Thanks!
A vote to revert guild permissions, is a vote for successful guilds!
#vote revert permissions
#vote revert permissions