The most powerful Horde council member

It should be Talanji right? All other council members are just worthless axe swingers with no real magic to cast. I’M sure it should be Talanji due to the powerful Death magic Bwonsamdi provided her with due to their deal they had. Meaning Talanji is the most powerful member of the Horde right now.

Talanji has had that power for all but 5 minutes. I’d say the only people she could beat would be Baine, Gazlowe and Geya’rah, only because they don’t really have access to any magic. Talanji is a saurid sitting at a table of devilsaurs.

Most powerful would be without a doubt Thalyssra.

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Thalyssra can’t be that powerful if she ran away from Jaina like a chicken.

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Staff_of_Antonidas#:~:text=The%20Staff%20of%20Antonidas%20is,promising%20apprentice%2C%20Lady%20Jaina%20Proudmoore.

First, Talanji also ran away in that circumstance. Two, if your argument is that Thalyssra must be weak, because she couldn’t go toe to toe with Jaina in the middle of the Alliance capital with Alliance forces pouring in from all sides, I think that you are being a little hard on her.

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Jaina can solo all the jailer forces hands on. Being outnumbered should not be an issue if you’re powerful enough as a mage.

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Power levels vary depending on the story that Blizzard wants to tell. Recall that in “Tides of War”, it was explicitly stated that Thrall was more powerful than Jaina so long as she didn’t have the Focusing Iris.

If a future story requires it, Thalyssra will be shown to be more powerful than Jaina.

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Should unequivocally be Thrall.

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I’ll believe that when I see that.

I mean, I agree with your point about power levels varying with the story. I just don’t believe Blizzard wants to tell any stories where Jaina is magically outclassed at this point in her life. Especially not by a Horde-aligned mage.

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Out of the Horde Leader’s Talanji might be quite powerful depending on what Bwonsamedi gives her, while Thalryssa is a very powerful mage, just not the Creator’s Pet Uber-Mage Jaina Proudmoore Levels.

Lorthemar, Thrall (Tragically), Geyerah, Baine, Mayla, and (most likely) whoever leads the Vulpera are all mostly just warriors, and as such can’t do the insane magical feats the others can, Gazlowe is a Tinker, and therefore is very, very hard to judge do to how dependent they are on machinery, but how crazy those machines can be.

I do find it weird to compare PL though, mostly because Power can mean a ton of different things. The most Influental Horde Leader is likely Thrall, and Baine appears to Hold the most political power (Which is the single greatest defeat for the Horde in history).

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Nope, he has is shamanistic powers again.

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Based on the story thus far, I would tend to agree with you re Jaina.

With respect to Thalyssra, she really hasn’t been given an opportunity to show her chops yet. It would be interesting for Blizz to put her in some situations where she can show off her arcane prowess.

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Maybe, but unfortunately, post-Stormwind Extraction, she’ll never be able to better than second-rate unless Blizzard shows her standing up to Jaina. And I just don’t see that happening.

You know, Blizzard actually apologized to Night Elf players for inadvertently making Tyrande look weak in the players’ eyes when she didn’t one-shot Nathanos after her power-up. I wonder if we are ever going to get an apology about Thalyssra being neutered immediately after joining a faction. (Hint: I’m not holding my breath.)

And it would have been so simple to avoid this too. Instead of having Thalyssra say, “We can’t fight her! Run!”, all it would have taken was to change that line to “We don’t have time for this! Run!”

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Which is why the Horde needs Kael’thas back, we need a powerful Mage character on the Horde side that isn’t Thalyssra.

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No, she can not. She is captured again and again by these very same forces. With Thrall even mentioning that it seems like they are being tested by the Jailer. So no. She can't.

<>Insert Thank you.gif <>

What about Rommath?

Not yet, though it is implied in the “Shadows Rising”-Novel that they are not gone.

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Agreed, that the dialogue change would have been better. Unfortunately, it is an example of many spots in BfA where slight dialogue tweaks would have made the story have been better.

I am not sure that I agree that Thalyssra needs to stand up to Jaina in order for her to be more than second rate. Was Jaina made second rate because “Tides of War” said that Thrall was more powerful than her if she didn’t have the Focusing Iris?

Thalyssra can still do cool, powerful things that show her power without having to go toe to toe with Jaina in an arcane duel. Take the little dialogue between Thalyssra and Jaina over Jaina’s flying ship trick from Lordareon. Blizz could make Thalyssra look powerful by having her figure out how Jaina did that trick, and then improving on it. Throw in some snarky dialogue about how Jaina chose the least elegant way of pulling it off and we have the beginnings of an interesting arcane rivalry.

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It didn’t, though? It implied that Thrall plus all the air elementals he could summon could have defeated one specific spell if she hadn’t had the iris. IIRC it also said that the water elementals in that wave were unwilling and were probably resisting. That’s apples and oranges, because we don’t know how Thrall + Elementals would do against Jaina’s strongest purely arcane spell. Thalyssra vs Jaina is apples and apples (arcane power).

I consider that to be just a long-distance arcane duel, or at least, competition (apples to apples). It’s still putting Thalyssra and Jaina into direct competition, and I can’t picture Blizzard doing that again.

And even if they did, it’s also not combat magic, so people would still be able to say that Jaina outclasses Thalyssra in a direct fight.

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I guess it depends on how you interpret this line:

Jaina was a powerful mage, but she shouldn’t have been strong enough to stand against him - especially not when it was the will of the elements themselves to resist her.

I interpret it as a general statement that Jaina, in general, should not have been strong enough to stand against Thrall. The part about the elements is positioned as sprinkles on top of that particular sundae. However, I agree that it is possible to read it in a narrower sense as only applying to that particular situation.

With respect to your second point, if the only thing that works for you is a demonstration that Thalyssra is more powerful than Jaina by her beating Jaina in a combat magic duel then, I agree that is unlikely to happen.

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It’s not that it’s the only thing that works for me, personally. I actually don’t believe that Blizzard intended to make Thalyssra look weak by having her run away from Jaina–just as I never believed they intended to make Tyrande look weak by not having her kill Nathanos. But in both cases, the perception has gotten out into the fanbase, and it will stand unless Blizzard does something to fix it.

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