There were guesses, but considering how doomer the Horde was I dont think most Horde fans even expect it.
Maybe Sylvanas, but even then she was kinda monsterous even as far back as Vanilla. She authorized the creation of a plague to wipe all life, Horde, Alliance it wouldnt have matter.
He represented the worse portion of the Horde, the one that wanted to conquer. Maybe he could have turned out heroic if the faction wars never happened.
Nah, it would have lead to us killing each other until one or several of our leaders ended up dead or more of our towns laid in ruin.
Blizzard is literally giving Trolls new customization. The thing with Blizzard is they will give people what they want. And if anything the faction wars have problably caused them so much headache we will nevef see them again in this lifetime!
Funny you mention the Ferengi, didnt they end up reforming alot during the end of Deep Space 9 to become less “evil capitalism incarnate” which is more or less where Gazlowe is trying to lead the goblins?
There are degrees from vaudeville salesman like Gazlowe and Noggenfogger and literally selling people into slavery.
At no point is Gallywix morally grey in Kezan already so yes, as far as most people who played the zone it was not only garbage that he was made the racial leader but that he lived at all.
There was a huge long running request to make Boss Mida the official bilgewater faction leader that started almost literally day 1 of Cata.
Also note that DS9 is the only reason the Ferengi are in any way tolerable in Star Trek and it does absolutely gigantic changes to them to the point that they basically end up with a social democratic everyman in power by the end of the show.
There were very early data mining hints about a Goblin Patch and an Ethereal Patch if I recall correctly. They ended up being right. Some people seemed to expect it.
I do think most Horde fans absolutely expected to raid-boss Gallywix eventually, and I did see a bunch of undermine expectation early in TWW.
I think Sylvanas and the Forsaken have done a bunch of bad stuff for a long time, keeping Tauren as experiments being a prime example. I also think most of it is kept lighthearted in general, with stuff like massacring a bunch of Humans by, if I remember right, hitting buried people in the head with a shovel to “save” them. There is a massive tonal difference at place here between “doing bad things half (or sometimes more) of the time, but a lot of it is slapstick and goofy” and “genocide the world”
You could say this straight up bar for bar the same for Varian.
Why? Is everyone creatively bankrupt? We fight Jaina in Dazar’alor, interesting how she’s still up and kicking.
This is the incorrect thing to bring up. Customization is irrelevant when the concern is story representation. You’d be better off mentioning the possible Zandalari influence come Midnight - but you’d still fail because I brought up Darkspear. And also because this is in the midst of the Horde complaining, together, about their shared frustrations in a lack of representation. So not at all relevant to your point.
Wouldn’t know, never went back to watch that because of it’s reputation as, ironically, being the edgier and darker side of Star Trek.
Varian was a slave of Rehgar, someone who’s still currently, as far as I know, generally considered a good guy and ally of ours. You, the player character, go around beating peons for not constantly working and forcibly break unions so the Vulpera can join the Horde. These things are not as serious in this universe as you make it out to be - or at the very least, don’t have to be it seems.
Admittedly I didn’t play the Undermine patch (I didn’t enjoy TWW’s story focus), but from what I’ve seen and heard isn’t Reznik also a major player here? The Alliance SI:7 Goblin?
Where did I say anything about people loving Varian? I’m well aware he wasn’t liked a lot. I saw the complaining around him constantly on these very forums back in the day. It’s a good thing my discussion points have nothing to do with it.
Okay so what was the point? Cata writing was almost universally trash, we know that. Varian and Garrosh were all part of the stupid move towards faction war that Kosak and Afrasiabi were pushing hard.
I guess acknowledging how hated Gallywix was by the people who played the race he was the “leader” of is bad for the victim complex nonsense?
Again Gallywix should never have been leader. That was the general opinion of people who mained goblin at the time. The only reason people cry about him is doomers like Erevien and Dreadmoore including him in their factionbrain litanies.
He’s a zone villain who got made leader because the zone writers were too lacking in originality (and frankly in the case of Kosak literally too stupid) to figure out someone other than Gallywix or the player.
Actually as per the Contract Work faction descriptions and the NPC Kaydee’s dialogue describing each cartel, the Undermine Bilgewater appear to indeed be 100% Horde
Regardless of the weird Gazlow dialogue option in the Grimla Express quest (that apparently didn’t proc for most players as per forum discourse)
The Bilgewater Cartel is Monte Gazlowe’s crew. They practice whatcha call the classical goblin arts. Building things and blowin’ 'em up. Some of the best mechanical minds have been in that cartel. Gazlowe. Grapplehammer, even Gallywix back in the day.
Innovation, engineering, construction. city planning, infrastructure, and all of that stuff in reverse. With explosions.
Officially they’re part of the Horde. but don’t let that scare you off. This is Undermine, the jobs here are all about Undermine business.
From brilliant inventors to explosive geniuses, Bilgewater is home to some of the brightest goblins to ever live. They made a big splash joining the Horde, but in Undermine, they can use all the friends they can get.
Well the discussion at hand is about the difference in treatment between different races when it comes to story representation. Zerde says it’s because faction wars and also because their characters were simply heroic from the start, while Horde characters were not. I deny this, saying characters like Varian very clearly had the same edge to them as Garrosh in their starting points, and that faction wars very clearly have no impacted Alliance characters to the same degree as Horde characters. Obviously there’s an issue at play here.
You chime in to respond to my “morally grey” claim re: Sylvanas and Gallywix and say that these characters are worse, in their origin, than being “morally grey” because (e.g.) slavery is present. I respond by saying that Varian, high king of the Alliance, was once a slave to Rehgar, someone generally considered to be a hero and good guy. And also that the Horde character goes around beating up peons for not working hard enough, or breaking unions to get races into the Horde. Thus clearly there is some dissonance between the tone of these crimes in real life and how common or slapstick/comedic it’s treated in the game universe.
You then, randomly, said people didn’t like Varian. I agreed. So yeah, what’s the point of that? I’m not sure of why you brought it up.
Neither here nor there, I don’t particularly care about this. Sure.
I used to see a lot of goblin fans defend Gallywix because they found him funny and in-vein for the race. I won’t pretend to know majority opinion on this because I’ve seen a total of 0 stats on it.
lol
Okay.
I think the more realistic scenario is that the writing team wanted to have a character who fit the Warcraft Goblin stereotype be the leader. A ruthless capitalist in absurd degrees, obsessed with money over morals and overall scummy dude.
The more realistic scenario is that Dave Kosak, known idiot and terrible person who had the good sense to disappear for a few years after the lawsuits, was writing lead for Cata’s new zones, actually.
You chime in and say that these characters are worse, in their origin, than being “morally grey” because slavery is present. I respond by saying that Varian, high king of the Alliance, was once a slave to Rehgar, someone generally considered to be a hero and good guy.
My interpretation of what you meant was actually far fairer to what was said than what was actually meant, it seems. I’m sorry to say.
I’ll say it: the only two major horde deaths that were actual wastes were Cairne and Vol’jin. A lot of the extended litany of “major character deaths” were literal whos on par with Renzik (or the archbishop of Stormwind or whatever he was, to get into some of the equivalent litany of victimhood from blue side whiners).
Adding Gallywix in the mix of that litany of victimhood was always absurd at the very best.
These things are not mutually exclusive. I’m unsure why you’re pretending that they are.
It’s hard to know what your interpretation is or was because your response was such a non sequitur.
I don’t begrudge your opinion. Go for it. I personally think doing stuff like making Garrosh full genocidal orc supremacist was far more boring than anything they else could have done, and while I have little love for Sylvanas I’d say the same for her.
I don’t really care for Gallywix either, but he is part of a pattern on this front.
Listen, I understand you don’t like the factions or their storytelling - that much is obvious as you make it very explicit. However it doesn’t make it some sort of “victomhood complex” for me to recognize something as simple as there being a discrepancy in the level of representation between in game races and characters (or factions!). And just because I have the capability of seeing and understanding that, or enjoying factions, doesn’t really require you to be so vitriolic in your interactions with me. I don’t remember doing it to you, so I’m unsure of where it comes from when it’s towards me.
The fact that slavery was involved in Gallywix’s story was obviously not the problem I or most of the players who also actually played through Kezan have with it. The fact that he is a slaver is.