The MMO principle and WoW's decline

Back in 99’ EverQuest was the go-to MMO. Yes, others existed but EQ was the first of its kind. A graphical MUD unlike any other and the MMO genre boom happened.

I played EQ in 99’ and it was basically group-required. You could not leave the starter zones without having a group to do things with. Within the first two days of release EQ communities were building. Not because it was the fashionable thing to do at the time but because it was REQUIRED to actually go anywhere in the game.

PC merchants were selling movement buffs, groups were advertising for tanks and healers, camp xp grind spots were being called, etc. The community was growing all through a cleverly designed requirement system and for years on EQ remained the only MMO that mattered.

Community was the best thing about EQ. Everyone on the server was known by most people and people were always around to help out. Unsurprisingly when you needed a tank you got a tank because in EQ tanks couldn’t solo either. You didn’t have to wait 5 real life hours to get a party together in EQ because in 99’ you didn’t get far from the starter zones without knowing somebody well enough to party with them. Your community was already formed long before you reached the dungeons. Most of the time you just went somewhere and found a group already there. Often times they’d have a spot for you already or opening soon. You were all learning together.

WoW came on the scene shortly after with a better known intellectual property (tens of millions played the Warcraft RTS before WoW) and logically took the mantle from EQ and while it had some single player focus it was still in the same vein of EQ 99’s approach to requiring groups to do most things.

Over the years WoW drifted from these group requirements. Quests requiring parties disappeared or became irrelevant. Solo play style quests started popping up to narrate stories and mini games that were basically single player puzzles started happening everywhere. LFD and LFR replaced the community building that would be required otherwise.

To the extent today you can pretty much know nothing about your community, nothing about how other classes play and nothing about your own class even and be reasonably geared and max level.

WoW is a great example of what happens to an MMO when it doesn’t discourage in fact encourages solo play. The community is broken. It’s either extremely toxic at the top end to players who have no idea what they’re doing or at the low end nonexistent because players in those brackets are afraid to look like fools for not knowing how to play. There’s a huge disconnect between 1-120, world quests, dungeons, raids and M+ / Mythic raiding.

Once you cross that threshold you find all the people who play the game often. All the people who know the classes inside and out and know the encounter designs. They know all of this despite the fact the game encourages gamers not to know this. Obviously they don’t represent the majority.

The majority of people are like the fish in the schools. They follow the trends and requirements put in front of them. They don’t do anything unless its required. Like work for example. Most people can’t be bothered with working if they don’t need to work to survive. Most people just seek the path of least resistance in everything they do. That’s why only a small percentage of people are superstars. It doesn’t make the majority bad. It just means they are driven differently.

Loads of normal people played EQ too. And those people got in the game and like a school of fish dodging a predator they realized right away they had to do things like a community. They had to group. Someone had to heal. Someone had to tank. If nobody did these things nobody got anywhere in the game. If there was a serious lack of a role someone would up the ante just to get the task done.

In WoW the schools of fish avoided the party content. It wasn’t required to reach max level. They simply logged in to do quests and logged out. Nothing in that practice required grouping. Over time the schools of fish in WoW lost contact with one another. Over time they opted to play less important DPS roles. Tanks and healers got harder to find. Community dried up and toxicity developed between the gatekeepers of the group content and the schools of fish trying to enter that content with zero clue and zero growth in that direction.

Now in BFA the evidence cannot be clearer. With time gated content everywhere disinterested players are subscribing for 1-2 months at expansion launch and then leaving for months. They don’t build communities because that’s not required. They don’t help one another because there’s no need for another person. They don’t know much about the classes or their own class to know how to break into mythic content. Worse they feel it’s too much work or too painful to do it and they’re right. It’s something they should have been forced to work on months ago.

Now I get that loads of people will leave the moment WoW requires party play. The thing is I don’t care anymore. WoW is supposed to be an MMO and to me the writing is on the wall. It needs to become an MMO again to bring community and luster back to the genre. Otherwise it’s just going to be more and more of the same timegated, trivial, boring crap.

Make Azeroth Great Again!

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I never played EQ. My MMO experience started with WOW. My experience in Vanilla opened my eyes to a fantastic world that I grew to love. It was the scenery, the quests, the engaging game play, the character progress. But mostly, I believe, it was the community. A good community makes for a good gaming experience, regardless of the genre. It is disheartening that Blizzard has been actively cutting out social interactions. It hurts the sense of community which in turn hurts the game which then hurts their wallets.

Make Azeroth [and community] Great Again! /moo

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lol you think it was community building for gearscore to determine if someone went to a Wrath heroic. WoW’s own playerbase caused all these issue that you see today.

If you wanted community then maybe the game should not have been divided up into casuals who were expected to worship hardcores.

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Please explain this to me. Casual players are expected to worship hardcore players?

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Blizzard traded community for convenience. And we went happily alone.

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Basically in Wrath you had like 75% of the playerbase effectively not seeing any of the end game content. We used to have this very easy pattern and idiot hardcore raiders do not realize it barely exist like it used to because of LFR and LFD

Back in the day the only way casuals saw content because you were required to LFM on your own server was to wait for Blizzard to nerf the content to the point that pugs could do it.

Mythic level raids as you know them nerfed into LFR raids. Imagine the hardcore guilds were obviously not happy with this. It was an endless cycle. Raid releases and hardcores love it but casuals lose their minds and are told to go find this magical guild that stops all progression to train hundreds of new runners.

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All of this was due to the lack of requirements in party play. If 75% of the playerbase doesn’t see something it’s generally because the game designers didn’t prepare them to see it. Maybe the content window was too short maybe the community too toxic already but generally it’s because the players were not ready for it. If the game up to that point doesn’t prepare them for it then the game really has failed them.

I said this before in another thread but basically Mike Tyson’s Punchout having you fight Gabby Jay 10 times before stepping in there with Iron Mike.

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The dumbest thing you can do, is get a kid a toy he needs other people to be able to play with it. Allowing solo play is exactly what made WoW great and popular. Not everyone is drawn to MMORPGs for the same reason, YOU may love group content and/or socializing online, I am NOT. I do NOT “do” dungeons, I think they are pretty lame, I would never play Diablo or similar games. I am drawn to a persistent world that I share with other people. Sometimes cooperative, sometimes competitive and other times just part of the dynamic background.

YOUR “communities” were pretty toxic to people not in their orbits, replace the word “Guild” with “clique”. YOUR vision for WoW, had it been followed, would have been a failure.

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Actually I think most psychologists would disagree with you. People benefit enormously from group orientated games.

For example getting your kid a basketball vs a video game. Maybe some mitigating circumstances decide the latter but the former is what most parents would do.

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While I can’t agree with setting the bar so high that 75% of the player base can’t participate in end game content, I do agree with making content challenging. I feel WOW in its current state today is the easiest version of WOW I have ever experienced since 2006. Granted each raid encounter has several mechanics but game play on average has never been more simple, which feels more bad than good. I’m an advocate for getting everyone up to speed, thoroughly learning their class, dungeon and raid mechanics, etc.

My PUG experience so far since the launch of BFA has been interesting so far - there’s a lot of people who are ignorant to the most basic aspects of this game; it’s astounding. Doing keys even as high as a +10 with random people can be dangerous. There are very geared players now who still don’t know the first thing about dungeon mechanics - it’s scary.

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You’re right that triviality is what is really hurting the game most. But I do have to say that the toxicity in the community is wholly owned by Blizzard designing the “MMO” poorly.

Mage Tower was a great example of solo content.

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Agreed! We need a chunk or two of content that resembles the Mage Tower from Legion. It’s a fantastic, challenging experience that has a relatively tasty carrot at the end - but the main thing is that it’s easily accessible solo content that pushes the player to their limit and knowledge. It’s so fun and engaging.

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Group content does not equal community, it is just not has easy as that. Community is something that people want to build and most of the time it comes out of necessity. When MMOs are new, this goes for any MMO, the community aspect of it tends to be pretty good. That is because one the community is smaller and two people are figuring out how to play the game. Basically people band together because there is strength in numbers.

As MMOs get larger and/or older the community starts to fade because players have other resources to get information other than just other players. In return players start to direct people to those others sources of information because it is less time consuming to do so and those sources can explain it better. This leads to communities slow breaking down because the “need” is gone.

Even if WoW moves back toward more group content we will not see a return to community. The need is just not there because we no longer need to depend on each other. Everyone just has to do their job, which does not require “community”.

If anything Blizzard needs to look at what keeps communities like RP communities together. I know some people do not like them but RP communities host tons of events. They create their own quests, storylines and reasons to depend on each other. While they are not prefect they do have some great ideas on building and keeping communities, even cross faction.

In short: Group content is not going to bring back communities.

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Perfect example on how it works now vs how it used to work.

  1. Season 2 releases and raiding guilds rush on in
  2. Casuals gets their chance to go in and see the content 7 days later
  3. Elitist cry on Youtube that LFR exist

How it used to work?

  1. Raid would release and raiding guilds would rush in!
  2. Casual playerbase would watch that look for a group in LFM in trade chat and fail more then likely 2 bosses in.
  3. Next stop the forums where those groups who failed would cry for MASSIVE nerfs
  4. Meanwhile raiding guilds are perfectly content doing progression having fun
  5. Back on the forums endless and I mean ENDLESS threads crying for nerfs to this content until Blizzard would cave due to the sheer numbers as casuals outnumber raiders
  6. uhohhh now raiding guilds are mad the content just because super easy and now they are bored demanding new content
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because it REQUIRES someone else to play with it, it’s nothing without other people, you just have a kid being sad looking at a thing they cannot use. Much of the fun of group activities comes from the group NOT the item. Playing Basketball by yourself isn’t that fun for very long. That’s the point.

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You just made it that easy.

"Community is something that people want to build and most of the time it comes out of necessity."

If the developer doesn’t make it necessary the people don’t do it.

Therefore group content mandates need to happen. FAR more than they do right now.

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Nope, people that don’t want group content will leave before that they do. Depending on the numbers they don’t want that. So you will not be seeing group content mandates.

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I never played EQ as I went from UO to WOW but I agree with you. It was the same in UO…you either ran with fellow PK’ers or you ran with the anti-PK. If you tried to go in between you got killed, dry looted, your corpse chopped up, and you got your mount killed. You knew the people on your server-you knew the guilds and you knew you needed other people…unless you were a tamer and you had a couple nightmares to attack folks.

WOW used to have this type of server identity. Outside of the few folks I run with I couldn’t really tell you anything about any WOW guilds on my server or any players.

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bring back the damn community

“you shouldn’t care about other peoples gear” they all cry as they got the game ruined for half of us because they cared about the gear.

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WoW is an MMO. If Blizzard wants to attract the loners the RTS model is always there.

The other option would be to add a difficulty slider in town so you’re essentially playing an MMO or a single player game.

You’re not supposed to play basketball alone. You’re right. Solo anything gets boring real fast. Even video games!

The idea behind getting the ball instead of a video game is that the kid is encouraged to find people to play with. Versus being encouraged to go inside and hide from the world.

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