The main source of M+ Toxicity and how to address it

The core source of toxicity in M+ dungeons stems from failures during runs, which often lead to frustration directed at players perceived as the problem. But why is there such a variation in skill among players who technically have the same scores and should have similar capabilities?

The issue lies in scaling changes introduced in Dragonflight Season 4 and The War Within Season 1. These changes have resulted in players with significantly different skill levels being grouped together. Tanks and healers, in particular, face disproportionately higher responsibilities compared to other roles, exacerbating frustration when things go wrong.

Additionally, the current +2 and +3 key increments allow players to advance too quickly from lower keys without adequate preparation. This rush creates situations where underprepared players enter higher difficulties, increasing the likelihood of failures and subsequent toxicity.

To address this, the system needs a more balanced scaling approach that spreads out progression and better separates players by skill level. Developers should ensure that:

  • Players in any given key range truly belong there.
  • Responsibilities across roles, especially tanks and healers, are more evenly distributed.

By reducing skill disparities and rebalancing role responsibilities, we can mitigate frustration and foster a more positive experience in M+.

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In my experience people are toxic in Mythic+ even when everything is going well. They just get upset if people aren’t playing perfect or PuGs aren’t playing like pro e-sport players. The main source of toxicity seems to be the fact that the devs want it to be toxic.

It was pretty toxic in Dragonflight back when I tried it out. I haven’t Mythic+ this season but seemed like it’s still the same. (even worse?) Not every run was toxic, but it def. was the game mode where toxicity showed up the most.

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There are people that are arrogant and over estimate their importance in keys that have always existed however I think the current season is actually a bit worse than usual and that there are fundamental differences this time around responsible for compounding the problem of toxicity in comparison to before.

So yes. Players have always been toxic but also this season is noticeably different than before. I don’t even usually talk about this subject but I have actually noticed these sorts of things more lately including my own frustration with the skill variation that I think contributes to the problem of toxicity others have been mentioning.

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Yes you still decided to chime in. Thanks so much your bleeding edge insight.

Bad play is the source of 95% of all toxicity. The way to avoid toxicity is to play well.

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The source of all toxicity is expectations meeting the randomness of reality. Toxicity doesn’t exist in pug groups if you bring pug expectations. This applies both to the people having emotional explosions and the people who are subject to them.

Bring pug expectations.

Expect play to be imperfect. Then you won’t get toxic over imperfect play.

Expect someone to get toxic over literally anything. Then you won’t be surprised when it happens.

When you expect these things you are pleasantly surprised when they don’t happen, not shocked when they do, and then you realize it’s not really that bad out there.

I don’t have to tell you something is wrong with this.

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Therapy and medication.

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I agree, all the toxic players I encountered had no idea what they were doing.

because io score measures your experience, not your skill level. that’s the easy answer.

Another request for an impossible task. Qualification of truly belonging in a key range is wildly subjective.

Nope, the main source of toxicity is cross realm anonymity. It’s the same reason any place on the internet is toxic. Some people don’t care to be decent or polite with a group of random internet strangers they won’t ever see again. And an even smaller group of people feel empowered to be vile and toxic by the fact that they can say whatever they want without consequence. There’s nothing Blizz can do to fix it. That’s just how the internet works.

Because your theoretical highest possible score is the keys you can complete on your best days with the four other players with are the best in the world which is a much higher score than you will get with an average group of your peers.

Frustration is the source of toxicity. People cope with frustration in various ways to alleviate it one of which can manifest into what others perceive as toxicity whether it be a comment or full blown verbal harassment.

Sure, you could say that a lack of tempered expectations can then lead to frustration but I think true source here is frustration while you could define poorly tempered expectations as a catalyst.

I agree with most of what you are saying but I don’t believe it necessarily even corresponds with the quote or that it even necessarily represents any solutions for me. I believe at least that I’m fairly good at avoiding toxic behavior on my own end and managing my own expectations.

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The wow forums always think the current season is the worst season.

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In the realm of online gaming, particularly within the context of Mythic+ gameplay in World of Warcraft, the toxic behavior exhibited by players has reached alarming levels. This phenomenon is not merely a reflection of individual misconduct but is indicative of a deeper cultural issue that permeates the gaming community. Specifically, players often vastly overestimate their own abilities and, in doing so, evade responsibility for their failures. Drawing from Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s insights into human nature, one can argue that such behaviors are not only detrimental to the integrity of the game but also to the personal growth of the players involved.

To begin with, it is essential to acknowledge the systemic overestimation of personal skills among players engaged in Mythic+ runs. This inclination is partly fueled by the competitive nature of the gameplay, where players are constantly striving to achieve higher ranks and faster completion times. The result is a delusion of expertise where individuals believe they possess superior capabilities compared to their peers. This inflated self-perception leads to unrealistic expectations, both for oneself and for team members. When players embark on these high-stakes challenges, they often do so with a sense of arrogance, believing they can easily conquer the game’s most demanding content without adequately preparing or considering their teammates’ strengths and weaknesses.

This behavior is compounded by a pervasive culture of blame within the Mythic+ community. Instead of acknowledging their own shortcomings, players often project their failures onto others. When a dungeon run fails, it is common for players to engage in finger-pointing, attributing the loss to the supposed incompetence of their teammates rather than reflecting on their own contributions to the failure. This refusal to take responsibility fosters an environment of hostility and resentment, discouraging collaboration and undermining the spirit of teamwork that is crucial to succeeding in Mythic+ content.

Bonhoeffer’s assertion that “nothing can be more dangerous than the illusion of self-sufficiency” resonates deeply within this context. Players who refuse to accept their role in a team’s success or failure perpetuate a cycle of toxicity. They disregard the reality that success in Mythic+ dungeons is contingent on effective communication, strategic cooperation, and mutual accountability. The failure to recognize that every member plays a vital role culminates in a toxic atmosphere where the quest for personal glory overshadows collective achievement.

Moreover, the implications of such toxic behavior extend beyond individual players; they affect the overall health of the gaming community. New players entering the Mythic+ scene are often met with hostility and derision, which can discourage them from engaging further with the content. As renowned psychologists emphasize, toxic environments breed further toxicity, creating a vicious cycle that alienates potential players and stifles community growth.

In conclusion, the toxic behavior observed in Mythic+ gameplay is emblematic of a greater failure to recognize personal limitations and to embrace collective responsibility. Bonhoeffer’s insights serve as a valuable lens through which we can interrogate these behaviors, shedding light on the importance of humility and accountability in a cooperative environment. To foster a healthier and more supportive gaming community, players must confront their inflated self-assessments and acknowledge their shared responsibilities. Only then can the Mythic+ experience evolve into a space that values teamwork, growth, and genuine enjoyment—qualities that ultimately enhance the richness of the gameplay experience.

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AmandeGPT in the heezy.

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You are correct however this is more of a rhetorical question to lead into my following points. I believe most people use IO as a baseline skill indicator even if it doesn’t necessarily correspond to their skill. I see IO as simply a number that represents a baseline of someones past accomplishments and assumptions need to be made from there.

There’s no actual way to know for sure how “skilled” a player is and making judgements based on IO is the only thing most people can use.

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I admit to this, and to having some fun with the generator. It’s cool if you can bring what’s essential to it. If you can do that, and understand and proof what it generates, then you don’t really need it, but I can see it saving some people a lot of time. Also frees them from the responsibility of learning, but many things have downsides.

I love this one because it has pomposity levels. How the heck can you NOT like that?

I was in an AK 11 yesterday, everyone was higher IO and ILVL than me. I expected it was going to be a good run.

The first pull the tank groups everything well but then as we are still DPSing down the group the tank takes off to the large spider. I follow the tank like my instincts tell me, followed by the healer 2 secs later.
Damage was pretty high which is expected at this part and all of a sudden I have aggro and the group wipes. The tank said what happened to the healer, the healer said he fell off of the ledge because of one of his abilities.

We keep going and this tank pulls big pulls and chains them, I hate it because I don’t get to go into stealth and open but I manage until the 3rd mini boss is killed. Immediately the tank runs towards the boss pulls it and the small adds right next to it. We fight for a few minutes and then wipe. The tank leaves the group. The shammy healer the says, what did the tank expect, he pulled the boss when I had 35% mana and no CDs.

Who is to blame and what caused this group to be toxic. All highly geared and high scoring players.

You can’t develop the toxicity out of human players.

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