ADDENDUM: Abandoned thread. Please see the thread “Mag’har Subjugation of the Ogres” for more information.
In the Mag’har Recruitment scenario we see that the Mag’har have put the Ogres who were formerly of the Gorian Empire into prison camps akin to those the Alliance put the Orcs into between Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3.
Addendum: The subjugation is revealed in the quest “Bonds Forged Through Battle”.
- " We subdued the ogre clans long ago. But every so often, one of their bravest–and stupidest–stirs the embers of rebellion. Today is such a day. You and Eitrigg will join Geya’rah in putting down the ogre uprising. Prove yourself in battle and you may earn her respect."
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“We have to deal with an ogre uprising every few seasons.”
AU Grom
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“What is the meaning of this uprising, Kor’gall?
Geya’rah
The question is, were the Mag’har justified in doing that to the Ogres?
That wasn’t the impression I got at all from that scenario. I’m pretty sure the ogres and Mag’har were living as peers until the former got indoctrinated by the Lightbound.
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No, the Mag’har subjugated the Ogres. The Ogres joined Yrel because they saw her side as the strongest and had beef with the Mag’har.
- " We subdued the ogre clans long ago. But every so often, one of their bravest–and stupidest–stirs the embers of rebellion. Today is such a day. You and Eitrigg will join Geya’rah in putting down the ogre uprising. Prove yourself in battle and you may earn her respect."
- “We have to deal with an ogre uprising every few seasons.”
AU Grom, Mag’har recruitment scenario quest “Bonds Forged Through Battle”.
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Geya’rah also states they must stand together rather than dissent in the text. It sounds a lot more like they’re talking about how the Gorian Empire were formerly hostile (and slavers themselves), and not that they now have enslaved the ogre clans.
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In that same quest, Geya’rah was talking about them standing together against Yrel’s group, and she also refers to the Ogres action as an uprising, meaning she considers the Ogres subservient.
“What is the meaning of this uprising, Kor’gall? You know we must stand together–now more than ever.”
Overlord Geya’rah
You’re focusing on the “You know we must stand together–now more than ever.” part, I’m pointing out how she calls their actions, quote, an “uprising”. You can’t have an uprising between equals.
This is not at all what the scenario shows
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Wait.
Before you reply, let me point out one thing. This isn’t about Yrel, the Draenei, the Lightbound or the Light. Just the Mag’har’s treatment of the Ogres and whether it was justified.
I don’t remember how the scenario went, but if the mag’har really did enslave / subjugate the ogres, then no I wouldn’t say it’s ever justified to do that to enemies.
Edit: lol I thought that’s where you were going with it. I figured you were trying to roundabout say that the mag’har don’t have room to protest Yrel’s group if they’re doing it to others.
An uprising indicates you are part of the State/government system, colloquially synonymous to a rebellion, and depending on whether you win or not, an insurrection or revolution.
So no.
Enslavement of Ogres would be wrong and not justified, and that isn’t what the scenario is showing.
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I never said enslavement, I said subjugation, just like AU Grom did.
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Statement stands.
Moreover, Blizzard considers them the same: Enslave Demon was renamed to Subjugate Demon.
This is wordplay. The fact remains the Mag’har have put the Ogres in prison camps and are claiming authority over them.
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No, they haven’t. That is not a fact at all. That is not what the scenario shows.
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Are you messing with me or are you actually serious?
Didn’t you read the quotes from Grom and Geya’rah? Plus Kor’gall, Greatson of Kor’gall doesn’t deny that its an uprising when Geya’rah confronts him and indicates the Ogres were previously subservient.
Overlord Geya’rah: “What is the meaning of this uprising, Kor’gall? You know we must stand together–now more than ever.”
Kor’gall, Greatson of Kor’gall: “You cannot protect your own people, daughter of wolves. Why would we follow you?”
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I don’t recall there being a literal camp in the scenario. The ogres have their own village a little ways off from the mag’har camp. So they don’t really seem imprisoned or enslaved. At most the orcs might be exerting pressure on the ogres to keep fighting, hence why Geya’rah comes in swinging. Either you die to them or to us kind of thing etc… etc…
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Saying prison camp over and over isn’t going to magically make it manifest.
He admitted he was wrong without replying to any of us in a second thread about this same topic and changed this thread title in order to get people to ignore this one and go to the other one instead of just editing this one
hot mess all around
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No, I abandoned this thread when I realized my mistake and directed people to the next one, there explaining my mistake. But yeah, editing this one would’ve been easier lol
Well too bad. I think you should take pride in your mistakes.
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