Main reason for me personally: M+ feels like it belongs in an ARPG and not an MMORPG. Plain and simple. It screams of D3 loot pinata and thats not what MMOs should be.
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I really wish people would make a legitimate case for their arguements rather than just “if you disagree then you are ignorant” crap.
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I feel that. I am curious though, if blizzard thinks that the majority of the population doesn’t raid or what? I’ve never seen hard numbers…(prob won’t find them) on how much of the community as a whole raids on a regular basis. I bring this up because it seems about a 50/50 argument for both sides.
Well right now in bfa nyalotha heroic nzoth, their are logs from:
- 50k destruction warlocks.
- 102k havoc demon hunters
- 107k bm hunters
Thats just to list a few specs.
So its safe to say at least 2million players partake in raiding. Thats quite a lot.
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Well, because even if you run a mythic + in shadowlands you will be getting 1 piece of 226 ilvl so they will still get loot that matches heroic raiding.
226 ilvl is from heroic raid bosses
226 ilvl will be in weekly vault after completing a 15+
Seems pretty even to me.
Well if we are gonna award gear by skill shouldnt M+ be limited to normal raid gear and raids should be capped at heroic and only PVP should award mythic level gear?
Imagine running an entire raid and waiting until Tuesday for your lootbox lol. It just feels like garbage, and it’s mathematically punishing to anyone that doesn’t raid. Edit for clarity: as their desired main content, I understand that it is design intent to reward players that double dip in other systems. This point is more or less, that there’s one progression path that all game content is reliant on, even if you’re a competitive M+ or PvP focused player at the very highest level, and that path is through the Raid…
This is a solvable problem. There can be progression systems in place for all content that rewards fairly for player skill and time, without punishing Raid content. Something that would near certainly be good for the health and longevity of the game
If it was about challenge people would be doing it with empty gear slots. Its not however, which is why you dont see that. Do you think people push keys into high numbers if there wasnt a way to track world firsts? Nope. You can keep your fake ideals and use them to supplement the lack of item level on M+ gear.
The system is not broken the way they have it. Raids will reward slightly better loot because they take more effort and time to clear. M+ will still give you gear that will make you competitive, but it will not (and should not ever) reward you with the same quality item as raids. No 5 man content should ever give you loot on par with mythic raid content. It prevents splits from being run, and promotes guilds. Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Nothing I’ve suggested would, as I see it, disincentivize raid in any way. Simply creating a theater for m+ gear, attained at the highest difficulties, to be actually valuable within the theater. All I’m reading from your post is an opinion, like much of all of us are stating ours. My opinion, is that a system that doesn’t penalize raid in any way, would not mess with the engagement metrics (for those that enjoy raiding), and would simply allow other sections of the game to flourish; which is almost certainly good for the long-term health of the game.
You’ve seemed to misunderstand my entire messaging, so please go back read my messages again before hitting me again with an absolute zinger like “Why is this concept so hard to understand?” lol
Would you be happy with blizz implementing M+ gear that scales with Mythic raids but has zero stats in raids or pvp? If the answer to that question is no, then you dont want to be rewarded for M+, you want to be rewarded with Mythic raiding gear while having to do minimal work to attain it. If thats the case then im sorry but 20>5. Its simply a lot easier to find 5 people who can dodge fire then it is to find 20.
That is almost exactly part of what I’ve proposed. You assume wrong with the remainder of your message. See below for context
Also, we disagree on your points… Collecting bodies isn’t the only difficult part of the content, you actually have to successfully work through the game theaters regardless of choice - and they both scale to insanely difficult moments…
Self-quote to answer top portion…
We’ve since iterated on this, to eek out potential improvements / other options as well
M+ gear should be equal to mythic raid. A top end key just as hard or harder to complete than a raid. A wipe in a raid doesnt instantly mean you fail at completing the entire raid like it can mean for a top end key. I dont see why failing at something for weeks should somehow reward better loot than a run which takes perfection in a short time.