Love the addition of Resilient keys in this expansion pack, but have already run into some issues with it in my opinion.
Whilst this probably doesn’t apply to the vast majority of the player base, i think the Resilient keystone implementation is a little half baked if you will.
Once you start pushing into higher level keystones (higher level in this case let’s just say 13+, although it’s relative) you still run into issues with getting your time wasted.
A vast majority of the time pugging keys you need actual score on end up depleting. I’d say probably 90% of the time, this means your key gets nuked back down to a level you don’t need. The game essentially forcing you to run a key you don’t need again.
There are two problems with this:
- As you start clearing more keys, the chance of your key randomly being one that you actually need is already quite low (especially if you only need a few dungeons to break into the next level of resilient keys)
- Because you’re already pushing into “cutting edge” content, chance of timing the keys you need is even lower.
I feel like you run into an issue where you’re constantly depleting your key down a level, trying to find a group that can even time the key that you already dont need, and then hoping you get key RNG after you time said key. All said and done you MAYBE get a key that you can even get score on.
It’s a very annoying back and forth with your keystone. And like I said, most people don’t push high enough for this to really be annoying, but to the people trying to push into higher keys this is very annoying. This also really exaggerates the issue of people checking warcraft logs parses and raider io and not inviting any sort of off meta spec.
If keystone were removed entirely, or the resilient keys were made so the level of key was actually the same level that you actually needed, the system would be infinitely better.
Today I ran with someone that had Resilient 14’s and it took us about 5 back to back groups to time Priory 14, but the group we had that we finally able to time it did it quite easily. We were able to just invite people and not worry about all these stupid metrics on their characters and give people a chance.
My 2 cents.
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I 100% agree. I don’t know why they decided that each time you complete a mythic+ your key changes, but I hate it. And another problem is that it encourages people to do keys that they may not be good at.
2 Likes
I think the Mythic Keystones are a relic of Legion and in time blizzard will eventually just get rid of them. It’s clearly an “older” system at this point. I just hope it happens soon and not 2 expansions from now.
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I would love to see resilient keystones as soon as 11’s, since after 10s there are no actual benefits in-game for clearing anything above a 10. The higher keystones, at least in pugs, devolves into hard heading stones until you can clear it. Seeing how keystone progression ends up similar to raiding with the added step of having to get your resilient key back to a useful level for IO, I definitely agree that there should be a system in place that doesn’t waste the player’s time like this. At the end of the day it’s significantly more fun for me and I assume many other players to host progression for a key level rather than having to complete another high level key that the player knows has no reward in-game and no reward in IO score.
In long term, I think this ends up driving player engagement down since even though they are playing more, eventually players get more frustrated at the collosal waste of time it ends up being. I’m reaching here, but I don’t believe anyone is so dedicated to this game that they would enjoy essentially doubling their time required to clear a key level they want. It’s a recipe for player burnout.
The issue with this is that the Resilient Keystones are actually bad for the game and M+'s overall health. However, there is a compromise that makes it work: by putting the “entry line” at a key level where you are purposefully pushing keys, are able to do so consistently, and you have a vested interest in doing more than just your “weekly keys” - you get into a position where the negatives of resilient keys are neigh on negligible.
So all of this realistically means that the compromise is “put it at a somewhat significantly higher level than what’s the gearing-endline” … or not have it at all. Because we as players do want keys to derank if we can’t time them, because otherwise the average player gets stuck with keys that they cannot do anything with.
Systems are designed for everyone in mind, not just the top 10-25% of players. Resilient keys are thus an exception to a system-specific function that’s necessary for keys to realistically feel good for the average player.
Resilient keystones already don’t affect the average player base by any metric. Vault gear can only be maxed out with 10s. When you also consider that numerically 80% of the player base doesn’t even clear all dungeons up to a 10 this argument makes less sense. If you also account how small a percentage of players even attempt to push beyond a 10 and also care about their score, I don’t see why 11 should not be included within the resilient system.
As they are, the reslient keys already only cover a percentage smaller than 10% of the player base and are designed for that player base in mind. How would they be bad for the game and M+'s overall health if the intended portion of the player base enjoys the idea of them, and the the casual player base never sees them in the first place?
Sure, but that’s the entire point. It isn’t something that average players should have access to. Players are driven by gear and progressing their characters by and large, at least those of us who get into M+, raiding, PvP, and so on. If you create a circumstance where people are far closer to the break-off point where people get their “optimal” gear, that creates an incentive to get there for the resilient keystone, not because people play at the level that’s best suited for them at the time.
Basically put it like this; the closer the resilient keystone effect is to the break-off point to where people do keys for gear, the worse the effect. Since it is currently put on the expectation that if you can time a +12 and you can do so across the board, you can do so consistently, and thus your keys doesn’t need to derank - moving it downwards closer towards the break-off point would effectively create an expectation and environment where the only keys that are even allowed to exist are the most optimal ones, and not the ones representative of where people are currently playing at.
So you can make an argument to move the effect further away from a +10, but not closer.
You answered your question yourself: “intended audience.”
Keys deranking is a good thing for the average player, no matter however much people get annoyed about them. But for people who are no longer playing for gear specifically and can consistently demonstrate that they aren’t, then the negative impact of an environment where the expected keys are “10 or bunk” isn’t as problematic (they still are, but only in far more niche situations, making it a negligible issue).
you don’t speak for all players. i’m a player too. so stop saying “we as players” etc. cuz you’re a player, but you don’t speak for all players. i want resilient keys at 10. and i’m a player. stop speaking for me.
Keys deranking and only working on a random map are likely related to failed keys still giving full loot, and not requiring unique keys for vault.
Make it so that the dungeon kicks you out when the timer ends, and only unique dungeon clears count for vault, and they can let you pick a dungeon and key level that you’ve unlocked.