The issue with PVP especially for beginners

PVP Arenas
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Hey guys,

As many of of know… There’s tons of issues with PVP and quite frankly, PVE also but since I’m a PVP player, I’ll stick to PVP. Now before I begin to list, I want to make it clear, all games have their issues but when you’re charging a sub, I think it should be priority to fix those issues. I completely understand… Yes, you can farm gold and play for free BUT for people like myself 3 kids, very little time, work all day, I pretty much have to pay the sub to play. If I’m playing a game, I want to enjoy it, not spend hours farming so I can play. No other game does this and most games (more popular) don’t even have subscriptions. They make money through the stores, costumes, battle passes ect. Now the easy choice, I get it, quit… but then what? The more players gone, it just impacts the people who love this, similar to myself, I don’t want to quit… I just want the game to be better.

#1 - Ladder is a sesspool of alts. People like Mag/Nahj, as an example have like 4-5+ alts on the ladder… Now I have no issues with alts, I have alts, I’m a 2.2k xp player, and they’re all about 2.1k atm BUT they’re different classes! I’m not creating 4-5+ Warriors, or Rogues, a class I’m insane at and just smashing new players. All my alts are different which puts me in a new position to learn. WW, Warr, Hunter. If you’re just recreating your main class, it’s so stupid. Now, I will admit, I did this for Hunter BUT that’s because I just started playing Hunter this season, my W/R was horrible (Bigdaaron), and I’m slowly climbing on my new Hunter: Sungjinwoo. Now I know how to actually play ranged which I’ve never played before. I’ve always been a melee main. Now I do want to make it clear… I understand these guys have insane que times also which prompts the alts BUT I hope they realize by smashing new players, and forcing them to quit, it’s literally contributing to that which leads into #2. Maybe they could introduce an achievement where hitting a certain rating on new classes gives you a reward? This way it might create incentive for these players to at least make alts of new classes rather than just the same class?

#2 - Lack of players playing. I understand Blizzard, is attempting to make the game more appealing to new players which is GOOD! I don’t know if the 1 button is the solution but it’s a start? The problem is the damage has already been done. Even if you make the game easier to play but still have the above happening… 1 button will actually make it worse. These players above laugh will destroy those people regardless. MMR is also an issue. Even on my new Hunter… You win a few games in a row and you’re already at like 2k+ MMR. Once you’re at this MMR especially with the state of the ladder, lack of players ect… It gives very little room to learn for new players. Like I said… On my main Hunter, it was brutal… even being a semi-experienced player.

#3: Solo cheating, toxicity: Honestly, I don’t even like playing Solo anymore. It’s full of Win trades, cheaters (glitching), and to make it worse… People will win-trade then start toxicity, to make you think it’s your fault and take the heat off them clearly cheating. I’ll go into matches, as a Hunter especially, communicate a plan… no one answers, I’m trying to trap heals ect & my partner is just tunneling healer. Then next match they’re on the other team playing perfect. It’s like they’re making it seem like “oh this is a tactic” to make it seem like they’re “trying” but then magically play the way you should on the other team. Has anyone encountered this? There’s also games… no defensives used, CC, then magically on the other team, plays perfect… It’s really discouraging.

#4: Que times/LFG: Que times are insane… 20-30 minute ques for DPS and for LFG, it’s literally just Glad players. It’s even more dumb because you’ll get these guys on alts, low CR, high XP and refuse to play with anyone unless they’re similar XP. A new player either needs a guild, friends, or RL friends, to play the game. It’s like if you’re going to make alts, to get faster que times, and just smash people… At least play with people trying to learn? Maybe you could teach them? Like this used to be a Community and now it’s just about having good W/R’s and high CR despite the fact they’ve already hit those milestones and have all the rewards…

#5 Rewards: I honestly think the cap for rewards needs to be lowered, at this point. Glad mount should be 2k at most. I understand this will ruffle a few feathers but with how many people mount collect especially PVE players, it might create incentive for those players, to try PVP. After that a new reward should be introduced every 100 rating. I also think players that hit 2.4+ or achieve a high PVE, could be given a free month sub (1 per acc) to reward their hard work and maybe introduce a system where if they’re playing with a new player (game detects achievements acc wide) and help that player achieve goals, it could give them points towards an achievement to unlock something, a free sub, ect. This way people can’t abuse it making alts since it would be acc based.

#6 Make Blizzcon/Tournaments Great Again: If the rewards get lowered maybe they could introduce a system where upon players hitting 2.4k+, you qualify to enter into a Tournament, Top Teams, qualify for Blizzcon. You could literally just host Tournaments, similar to games like League and have rewards for the top 3-5 teams. It could be done for both 2’s and 3’s. Find a friend, sign-up for the tournament and maybe it’s hosted monthly? I feel so many games have way better structure for Tournaments. It’s also boring seeing the same faces, every single time. I just feel this game needs more presence especially on Youtube. I’m sure people like Ven, Supa, ect would commentate and maybe bring back passion to the game?

Just some ideas and also concerns.

Thoughts?

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I can eat an entire pack of gushers in one bite.

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Well bro! Now that they’re taking the dyes out, I don’t blame you buddy. Gushers are mad good.

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My man!

Also, start small with the suggestions but one thing I adamantly agree with is revisiting the reward structure of WoW PvP. I don’t think lowering the bar for glad mounts is the correct approach.

However, I do think adding a seasonal arena track and rewarding people that stick to one class, spec or char for a percentage of a given season would be cool.

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I hear yeah, I feel at this point though the people I’d want reading this post, will take the time to read it. If someone can’t read one page worth of writing, I doubt they’re the person, I want to be targeting with these idea’s regardless :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, I can understand that… I just don’t think any reward should be “gate-kept.” They could even introduce something like “If you hit Glad” you unlock a mount customization where you get to customize the mount to your choosing. That way lower CR players get the mount but then Glad players, can customize it, that way they’re still feeling like they’re above everyone? I’m not really sure why people care that much to be honest.

Thanks for replying though bro. Appreciate you man.

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I don’t think they are, imo if you can’t beat the teams you shouldn’t get it.

And to the point, whenever I’m in that 2300-2500 range it’s the same names, sure sometimes I see some giga r1 on an alt but not enough to make an overall impact on climbing. The mmr system WILL put you where you belong over enough games. If the playerbase at 2400 is too good for your team to handle consistently then I think you shouldn’t get the 2400 reward and that’s working as intended.

It’s a ranked PvP ladder not a battlepass

The biggest problem I swear is that rating is different in each bracket and the easiest one gets the most active ladder, 3s is significantly harder to get rating in blitz so people don’t play it which compounds the issue. Too many versions of the game to play

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They’re gate kept in the sense that they’re unrealistic for most the player-base to achieve. If people feel like they wont be able to achieve those goals, it discourages them from trying… Even more so, if they do try and get absolutely rekt.

That’s why I made alternative suggestions.

If I had to ask you “what’s more important” having more player base to play with and shorter ques (while still getting those rewards) or rewards that you’ll just get to flex, I’d hope most people would say “more player base.” At the end of the day it eventually helps even the higher XP/CR players because the more people playing = more people that eventually get good = more players for those players to play with at the top of the ladder.

It’s really not a hard concept to understand but where things stand now… People don’t have the room to learn.

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This isn’t true at all xD Why is Marvel Rivals, absolutely crushing it then?

Any game that has an easier reward system, has a higher player base.

I would also argue the problem with the “lower rewards” is the fact most the sets look horrible for PVP with minimal effort (excluding some classes.) I’d also argue the sets need to be completely different from their PVE counter-part. Also hitting 1800 above and getting rewards for every 100 rating isn’t a “battle pass system.” They’re not getting rewards for simply playing… They’d still have to achieve a certain rating to unlock the reward? I don’t understand your logic? The rewards just need to be more desirable which isn’t a “gimme a free trophy.”

Like I said man… You make a character, you win a couple games 2’s, 3’s ect and you’re already at 2kMMR. 1600 games for instance, are A LOT harder than they used to be because the ladder is mainly alts.

You sound like a gatekeeper bro tbh & I feel like you didn’t read the post because I literally mentioned I still feel like higher CR/XP players such as yourself, should still get rewarded just in different ways. There’s other methods to create incentive man.

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Whether a game is an MMO or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s what creates incentive to come play the game and retain the players lol.

Also I would argue 2.2-2.4 back then, is nothing compared. 2k feels like 2.2k. 2.2k feels like 2.4k. Like honestly man, I think you just need to see the bigger picture but at least we agree on bumping the rewards.

Have a great day broski!

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weak pull out game issue :stuck_out_tongue:

This isn’t nearly as prevalent as you’re suggesting, and is mostly just in your head.

Many go into shuffle with chat disabled, and many more don’t care to talk because of how heavily abused the report function is.

I can empathize with the frustrations of these happening or seeming to happen from time to time, but it’s not that common to encounter cheating, glitching, win trading in shuffle. Throwing is toxic, but it’s not win trading, and the perception that people play perfect when not on your team is in the overwhelming majority of cases just coincidence, e.g., there was no cheating or throwing involved, the person just had a better game against you for various other reasons that have nothing to do with violations of the tos.

I agree with you on the annoyance of alts curb stomping newer/less experienced players and the queue times/lfg comments. Both of those are definitely issues that should be addressed.

So we’ll go from a few % of players having glad mount to 95%-99% of players having the glad mount. I don’t like this idea at all. You’re suggesting to make the mount have absolutely ZERO prestige.

Tbh not even sure why you would want to ride it if it was that easy to get (e.g., virtually anyone can get the mount in most seasons by the end of season without even needing to bind their abilities or know what 99% of their talents do). It would be just another +1 on your mount collection tab, and an otherwise worthless array of pixels.

Blizz has been lowering the requirements for rewards since mop or wod I believe, and they’ve continuously lowered the bar every expansion. I forget when it started, I believe it was with giving an elite set that required no cr (just conquest earned), then we progressively went from 2200 elite sets, 2400 enchants or elite weapon appearances and 0.5% gladiator to 2400+ 50 wins gladiator, 1800 elite sets, 1950 enchant, elite weapons at 2100.

It hasn’t really helped at all as far as I can tell, at least not in any meaningful way.

As far as incentive, I don’t see any sustainable one. Pve players that don’t like pvp but are willing to do it will most likely quit after getting it, or just get their friends that are good at pvp to carry them.

I’m all for adding more rewards, but trying to devalue the glad mount into having zero value outside of a +1 on your mount collection tab is not a good idea imo.

I’d support this :slight_smile:

The top players/same faces would win all of these tournaments. 2400 players would get absolutely dunked on by rank 1 teams/awc players, and they’d likely stop bothering to participate.

That would be nice :slight_smile:

Some good ideas, but respectfully, I don’t think having 3 kids and little time to play merits most of these changes.

E.g., I agree we need to fix queue times/lfg, add more incentives, and perhaps figure out a way to minimize smurfing so high xp alts aren’t decimating the morale of newer/less experienced players on their way up the ladder, but lowering the reward thresholds is not a good solution imo.

Might as well just have the glad mounts be purchasable for 5 marks of honor each if you’re going to make it require 2k cr lol. If anything I think this idea for the glad mount would ultimately reduce participation even further from where it is currently [e.g., 3s def going to die past 2k, so say good bye to the middle-upper ladder].

Ngl though, the rage and tears from the 3v3 main community would be hilarious :rofl:

Anyway, sure, add a mount reward for 2k/2200, can’t hurt, but leave the glad mount alone lol.

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Titles and mounts lost any real “prestige” they had when they dropped percent based rewards.

Any mount that is only ever obtained by 0.1% of the player population is a waste of time to farm and provides ZERO incentive to try to get it.

90% of the people who get it, get it almost every season. Nobody is trying to climb for it anymore bro. We all know that mount is for people who buy it and the people who get it every season. It’s rare to see a first time glad who didn’t buy it or get “helped by friends”.

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Yup I have more respect for people with % mounts. Like I don’t even care that much about getting glad. It’s a hard grind if you don’t know the right people and it’s honestly not worth it. It’s especially not worth it when I saw an egirl streamer who is definitely not a good player get 2600 a season or 2 ago. It’s a meaningless mount to me for the most part.

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I’ve seen some terrible players make “friends” with the right people by bootlicking and taking verbal abuse and degrading comments just to get it.

That’s not for me man.

It doesn’t even need to be a streamer, they may have just sent them pics or some other thing. It’s a sad reality but there’s definitely a dark side to it.

We’ve all heard the story of that one chick who basically did stuff for gold. It’s no different now than it was then, it’s just not advertised

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Truly a Duelist (male) moment.

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It’s true. The dark side exists.

I know you can’t admit it because you’d be ostracized.

It’s ok

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lol

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The irony is the dude you’re talking to (swole) tried to buy glad twice

The context on the forums is where the humor comes from

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ya that makes it all the funnier

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What’s so funny about lifetime glads taking advantage of people who are waaaay too desperate for glad?

They use it as a way to control these types of mentally ill and desperate people

It’s really sad honestly

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what makes you think they desperate tho

mind control is when u q with a friend ya