The importance of respect your villians

Community General Discussion
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I just saw a video of villians, about how goofy they are, when they supposed to be actual villians, but all they make players feel is pity for them for how bad they are, or dumb their plans actually are

and cant avoid think in Gromash, the legendary orc that knows nothing but defeat after the heroes arrive, for real, at some point i wanted to pretend i got hurt to let him win and make him feel better

now we have xalata, who got humilliated by allerya in record time too

and that happens in other games as well, like Shao Khan from Mortal kombat, he and all villians are punching bags for the heroes, there are good videos talking about it if you want details

in halo we have atrox, the super smart general who keeps letting his enemies run with the key of his destruction AFTER HE LITERALLY BEAT THEM, ALL HE HAD TO DO IS FINISH THEM, but no, he let them run so they came back after and ruin his plans, this happened in both games with the chief and red team

those are just a few examples, of villians who completely fail in their jobs of making feel the player or reader, any kind of thing for them than pity, ultimetly ruining the story, becuause are nothing but goofy characters who pretend to be something they are not

so wanted to ask you if you have favorite villians that actually are good in what they are supposed to be, even if they are goofy, if their purpose was being goofy that is okay, what metters is if they fulfill their purpose, even if was being a serious or goofy villian

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I feel like a villain winning is really a bummer ending. Yes the villain might look like a fool, kind of letting the players win at times, but I only play so much and want to see my characters being hot and winning in that time.

My favorite villain could have been Thanos, except he wasn’t when he won in the end and I walked out of the theater thinking I just wasted 10 bucks! Instead I will pick Skeletor because he is a hot fool.

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Like even when villains act cocky and end up losing it can still make them feel like good villains

I just don’t care about Xal’atath at all, she’s just Zovaal again and her plan is explained just as much as his

At least he was giant and had an army, Xal just kind of exists and goes “Haha you’re a fool” and then loses again

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If the Iron Docks taught us anything is that villains can be silly but memorable goons and still fulfill their role.

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People will always give me grief for this but I still stand by it: Arthas was World of Warcraft’s best villain to date and I was hoping that this “trilogy” would finally give birth to a similar villain.

One of the main reasons he was so good, was that he had time throughout the franchises to grow and develop. That hasn’t been the case with any other villain. You would think that they would consider that when planning this trilogy but it’s been a disappointment so far. I don’t expect that Xal is the main bad, obviously, and Iridikron is still a player in the background and such, but there has been no indication that they are putting much thought on any villain for the current story.

To me what makes a villain great is:

  1. You have to see enough of his plan to understand the stakes. Holding on the reveals hurts the villain instead of helping it. You can do a reveal to the player, without revealing to the heroes.

  2. Villains can’t do more stuff behind the scenes than on camera. It disrupts immersion.

  3. The villain needs to genuinely win, consistently, and pose real dangers when winning, before the heroes are able to turn the tide.

  4. Heroes have to lose real tangible things.

  5. The villain needs to be multi-dimensional. Maniacal laugh + evil world domination =! does not equate good villain. A good villain is one you can resonate with and given different circumstances, even side with them. It should be more of “doing the wrong thing for the right reasons” rather than “everything must burn” all the time.

  6. Azeroth, the victim: This trope has hurt every villain since Legion. We are on expansion number FOUR, of Azeroth being the mysterious damsel in distress that won’t wake the F up, and yet demands that we defend her. It doesn’t help development of good villain stories IMO. We need to wrap it up and resolve it and move on.

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Until WotLK when he got turned into a goofy villain.

Also, I have never seen anyone given grief for saying Arthas from WC3 was a good villain.

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My favorite villains are the ones who are, ultimately, after the same goal you are, but in a much different, and potentially much more harmful way.

It usually comes down to a clash of ideals, and you’re not even sure if you’re in the right, but you think you are. And you will have to fight for it.

I don’t really like a lot of WoW villains because it’s just ‘i’m gonna destroy the world teehee’ and there’s not really a lot of wiggle room with that. Of course you’re going to fight them, and you won’t remember who they are as soon as you do.

Take Gallywix for example. Everyone hates him. Even Xal’atath. There’s not really much to use him for outside of a punching bag. He had absolutely no redeemable qualities. That’s not a very interesting villain to me.

Koramar and Zoggosh were such a great combo. Even after running that place for the umphteenth time it was great listening to those two.

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BINGO!

I have. But it is what it is. And personally, knowing full well the limitations that a game like WoW has on its story telling, I don’t think Wrath’s LK was that goofy. It has really good moments, and it did a great job telling his story.

Despite criticism, I actually thought it was great that you kept sort of encountering him over and over all throughout Northrend as you leveled.

The questline where you see how he got influenced by Shadowmourne, his descent as he when looking for Icecrown, Wrathgate, Halls of Reflection, I mean there are plenty of good moments for him. And of course being able to play through the culling, again putting the player into the villains shoes, that makes a good villain.

What connection can we really make with Xal or their Void lords? I mean not even Alleria who is turned into a void-elf, can even consider for a second Xal’s point of view, because it’s not one that makes sense.

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They have fallen into the 900 year plan trap with xal. Shes potrayed as absurdly weak gettig boons from greater powers who shouldn’t be giving her the time of day to start… the old gods was a stretch but a believable one. The primals though? Why would they ever turn over a weapon on par with the dragonsoul to some legit rando?

Worse the reason she has allies are always shakey… the spider people really had zero reason to serve her.

She…she just doesn’t do anything. Ive no idea lore wise if she is even a threat in combat ar this point.

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Well, the nerubians made sense. They had a connection to the old gods and a kingdom in decline. She corrupted the heir with promises of power who then installed a tyrannical police state to ensure cooperation with the new program. She was ultimately betrayed by courtiers and defeated by the heroes

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The only time your statements have any validity is if you’re talking about Zovaal. Zovaal was a joke.

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Xal’atath trusting Gallywix of all people with the Dark Heart is very goofy. He was definitely going to rip her off, if it hadn’t been stolen from him.

I wouldn’t trust Gallywix to water my pants, let alone with the artifact upon which all of my mysterious and evil plans depend.

Xal’atath has proven to be a bit of a goofball. Less of a 3D chessmaster and more of a casual Checkers enjoyer.

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Well… we have a foot fetish already, what’s more?

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What we need are just better writers.

I swear Warcraft 3 was an accident. Whoever was responsible for Illidan and Arthas no longer works at Blizzard for sure.

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Too late to edit. Nothing left to do but stand by it.