They haven’t removed Thrash yet, he landed a single and then a double hit on our Warlock last night and he deleted him.
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- Thrash is no longer used
they removed it, its an blue post bro
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kAgLf9QtRN3qwFh2#fight=61&type=deaths&source=22&death=1
It is still in the game regardless of what any previous blue poster said, this is from last night.
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Saves having to buy dual spec.
Ive seen a lot of warrior tanks full prot
Yeah most of them are in gal stance not fully tanks.
They need to fix this. Make raid bosses require defensive stats to stay alive
even for locks and rogue tanks
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A lot of people were pure tank in vanilla because they didn’t know what they were doing, and no even back then they didn’t do enough threat. Fury Prot was a thing in vanilla, and having been in a bad guild in vanilla, I remember getting to sit there as a warrior doing white damage because the prot tank did so little threat.
The problem was spec’ing prot doesn’t help survivability for the most part, all it does is drastically reduce the threat.
I agree with the base premise that effective tanking should be skewed toward better damage mitigation and less toward DPS. Threat can be handled independently of DPS via ability threat modifiers.
It makes much more sense to me to have a clear line of dileniation between what is needed from a raid tank and a DPS. It adds another layer of flavor to the game. Gearing, Talents, Rotations, etc
That puts us down the path of TBC though, so I don’t see it in SoD’s scope. Maybe something they can take a look at in Classic+ down the road.
Prot warrior is a true tank. Maybe they need to buff boss damage lol
I think they need tank check bosses, to be honest.
Something like during a frenzy stage if you don’t have X defense then all attacks land and are crushing blows. That would bring tank itemization back into the equation and not waste gear drops.
yep, when I said that it was the first lockout progression, now theyre both geared and knowledgeable enough to go gladiator
and I agree that raid damage should be balanced towards a full prot tank, but it’s hard to do it because of gear progression, if you balance the damage to pre-bis full prot tanks, well geared ones will run dps spec, and if you balance to well geared full prot tanks, pre raid ones won’t be able to clear
most raiders don’t have the old mentality of requiring multiple lockouts and current gear to be able to clear the raid, if they can’t clear on the first week, they will complain
when ST launched, it was tuned for current gear, not pre-bis, and people complained so they had to nerf it
The main problem really is with how threat is generated. Most tanking abilities have a high base threat but then scale with pure damage. So dps abilities tend to scale better, and dps gear tends to be better for stat weights. When you take the stats that increase mitigation, you typically trade off stats that increase threat (agi is a double dip ofc).
It would be nice to see actual tanks, but it would probably require an entire rework of how threat scales with tanking abilities. Maybe based off defense rating (but then its just stacking a new stat). So idk what the solution is, but the design of classic wow makes it so your threat scales with damage.
No, fury prot was the ultimate meme spec born from private servers and world buffs. The difference between OG Vanilla at patch raiding vs the abomination that was 1.12 Classic, was the concept of time. You needed that extra mitigation, you needed the fire resist, you needed that extra armor, because the damage output was so low at patch, your healers would OOM. In the beginning there was 0 spell power gear. And yes, there were threat issues. Know what dps did? Well, we “waited for 5 sunders” lol.
But seriously, people don’t know what raiding at patch during OG Vanilla was like at all. Classic Vanilla was a way different game than OG Vanilla.
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No fury prot was not a the ultimate meme spec, while yes raiders in vanilla did tend to wear more defensive gear and resists as well as tended to wait the 5 sunders, gear choices had little to do with Spec, and while yes there were lots of clueless players, there were plenty that did have a clue and which would get world buffs, min max, and which also spec’d for both mitigation and threat.
Take a look at the prot talent tree, all the mitigation is in the first 20 spec points, which means that fury prot has just as much mitigation as deep prot does, all going deep prot did was kill your threat, it provided no additional mitigation.
lol. no we did’t. I’m not talking about Vanilla Classic. I’m talking about OG Vanilla at patch raiding. Do you now why we didn’t get World Buffs (aside from being on a PvP server)? Time. Do you know why most prog raiders at the time didn’t have many alts? Time. Why did we stop raiding the previous tier when the new one dropped? Time. When we were in t2, MC still took close to 2 hours. When AQ 40 dropped, MC was dropped from our schedule.
To be honest, the biggest mistake people make about talking about “back in the day” is missing out on how big a deal time was. And we were raiding 4 days a week 5 hours at a time. And we min maxed as well. But unfortunately we didn’t have the fore sight to know that warriors would scale so well. We didn’t know class X would suck. Unlike Classic Vanilla noobs who needed all the work done for them.
Take a 2 handed fury prot into a fight that lasts a while with non revamped healers and non existent itemization, and they’ll end up dead guaranteed.
Edit: This idea that damage is king is a modern player concept. New flash, T1 was not trash. For it’s time, it was useful because of the int and the fire resist. There was no spell damage at the time and mages burned through mana doing like 400 damage lol per frost bolt.
It sounds like Dragonflight might interest you.
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blizzard tried this the first and second week of ST. Guess what? people cried over how hard it was and blizzard nerfed it to the ground to the point you only need 1 “tank”. 2 healers, 2 spriests to clear the raid.
I am talking about OG Vanilla, not everyone was clueless, though I will admit the vast majority were. Either way the argument doesn’t change no matter how you look at it. Tank specs, for example Deep Prot was never a good tanking spec, even if you look at it from the “I want avoidance” perspective as it had no more avoidance than Fury/Prot or Arms/Prot while generating less threat, and ultimately thats always been the big failure of tanking specs, since speccing deep into them didn’t make a tank any tankier or make them have increased threat.
The idea of its not more tanky is an lie straight out
shield specialization
anticipation
toughness
thats the base 2 rows others are like Improved shield block increase that idea, others increase your spells/give you more spells to more tanky
The overall problem with prot warriors is rage gen. players can use the rage gen runes (they wont it doesn’t increase damage ohh sad) or give them more rage on hit.
because we all know they have to get hit for more rage, thats problem with fury tanking.
blizz could easy fix this with runes
and the idea of raid bosses SHOULD destroy anyone else who is not build defensive. Is apart the problem and overall threat form the dps specs even at an casual level. They need reduce the threat (NOT REMOVE IT) So those real tanks could have the chance to be played and those side dps specs can dps.
i am talking about for the most basic level because not everyone is trying to be top 1% or pharse so keeping that in place would be fair and still have the skill behind it as an casual tank have to fight hard to an top 1% dps still have an chance to hold threat.
ive always like that vanilla specific gamepaly where if your tank dies, another tanky class can press a defensive and pick up the boss. That doesnt exist if bosses are trucking tanks and its a requirement for them to run full defensive talents.