Do you also think the Night Elves deserved to be genocided?
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If I were playing Horde, I would. As forsaken, Iâd think everyone deserves to be killed so they can become forsaken; as an orc, Iâd view it as revenge for all the orcs killed by night elves starting with when the night elves defended Ashenvale. My sense is that most Horde players agree, given how strong Sylvanasâ support is.
Obviously the Horde is never going to see Daelin as being a good guy. Sensible Alliance players have always seen him as a hero, though, and Jaina as a traitor. The present Kul Tiran story arc just recognizes what Alliance players have always known.
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My sense is that most donât agree since Iâve since continual issue with this storyline.
Iâve never seen him as a hero. As an Alliance player, I donât typically see wars of aggression and campaigns of extermination as good.
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I play both sides so I see both sides of the story every step of the way.
On my Horde main character I have no interest in the Sylvanas story at all, it all seems more like it should be some kind of side quest instead of a main story line. I do it solely because I have to. I canât stand Nathanos and his condescending behavior. Again, if I didnât have to I wouldnât do a single quest in the Sylvanas / Nathanos chain.
But I do very much like the story line for Princess Talanji and the Zandalar. Very well done. Seems to me that would have made a better main story line.
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Tell me about it⊠yesterday I arrived to Darkshore, read the quest text and went ânah, not in the mood to channel any inner terrorist or something. Will do these later⊠someday.â
War campaign is also depressing (OOC Rexxar mostly⊠though Iâll admit I enjoyed the quests with Gallywix but mostly cause his moronic decissions make me laugh).
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What really bothers me is that we flagged this issue right away when the story concepts were first introduced for BfA. Like, a year before release I created a thread pointing out that there was a huge problem with Horde players and story motivation, with tons of responses. Many others argued the same thing in other threads.
Blizzard just plowed ahead anyway and here we are. Thatâs kind of the story of this expansion, isnât it, whether we are talking about story or game mechanics? Players raised red flags about the azerite system all along the way as well, but Blizzard just plowed forward. Itâs like this whole expansion was basically set in stone and they are unable to change it even as subscriptions plummet.
BfA is fundamentally flawed in story and mechanics. It needs a radical overhaul, and Blizzard is tinkering at the edges.
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Further: and itâs a damned shame because the world building is so good. Zandalar and especially Kul Tiras are some of the best environments Blizzard has ever done, and they are being wasted on a game that is not very fun to play because of story and game mechanics.
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I donât remember if it was you or someone else who pointed out the utter tragedy that THIS is the South Seas expansion people have been asking for since BC.
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When you review the different opinions between Daelin and his daughter Jaina, their entire argument over the Horde boiled down to their different perspectives.
I always took it as Jaina saw the Horde as Thrall and Cairn, noble leaders trying to do their best.
Daelin saw them as Blackhand and Doomhammer, vicious monsters from another world who invaded with the intentions of destroying everyone.
Neither of them were right just as neither of them were wrong. All the times the Horde has joined forces with the Alliance to fight a bigger evil has proven Jaina right but just as well Garrosh/Theramore and Sylvanas/Teldrassil & Gilneas have proven Daelin right.
This isnât a thing with a clear right or wrong side.
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To me, it seems pretty obvious that they badly missed their prediction on how Teladrassil was going to be received, and everything else has stemmed from that error.
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I agreeâŠa major part of this characterâs motivations in going renâdorei has been because the Horde keeps getting bad leaders seemingly every other expansion.
In their defense, Sylvanasâ actions have made total sense for Sylvanas. Whatâs lacking is why the rest of the Horde is just dumbly following along with it. Even when Garrosh was doing honorable things like stopping the slaughter of innocents in the Stonetalon story, the Horde was ramping up to rebel against him. In contrast, Sylvanas hasnât done anything nice since day one, and beyond Baine grumping in one of the cutscenes, no oneâs made a move against her. (RIP Rexxarâs honor in particularâremember the guy who abandoned the first Horde because he thought they were morons? Now he thinks sheâs the Hordeâs only hope at survival? Sheesh.)
As far as burning Teldrassil, I donât quite understand why it matters to the night elves, though. Back in vanilla, the tree was considered a major source of corruption; if this had happened back then, half the druids would be celebrating. Even with retcons taken into account, it seems any World Tree not planted on top of a mountain breaks into the Old God prison with its roots.
If maybe, just maybe, it comes out Sylvanas burned the tree to keep that from happening, it would make sense and redeem her. Instead theyâre ham-fisting the genocide storyline, and Iâm justâŠshrugging.
How about the obvious problem with having a Warchief whoâs main battlecry is âDeath to the Living!â Even though every race on the Horde (bar the Forsaken) are living. Like, seriously, there are so many red flags to Sylvanas being Warchief, that I can find a new one every time on on these forums.
Another problem is her fandom. Their so blinded by their infatuation with the character that theyâd rather see in entire faction become a group of genocidal monsters just to stick it to the Alliance even though weâve been doing so for years.
Like, I get that it really sucks to see your favorite characters leave the story or see major changes to their characterization. But by god, Sylvanas is infuriating. I get that Forsaken fans just love being obedient foot-rubbers for their beloved queen, but not everyone is a Forsaken fan and wants to rub those decaying feet. Some, like me, want to be heroes proactively trying to find ways to save our dying planet. Not burning innocents alive, but rescuing said innocents from the flame.
My solution is this. Take Sylvanas, remove her as Warchief. Take Volâjin, reinstall him as Warchief. Congratulations, Sylvanas fans can still go be Sylvanas fans and Horde fans can go back to being Horde fans.
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Speak for yourself. Killing people just because they are different isnât okay in my book.
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Thereâs a certain irony to BfA that the only âHordeâ faction to have justified motivation to want war with the Alliance - the Zandalari - is the one weâre not even technically allied with yet (and canât play as yet either). And, I get the feeling even this will get squandered with Talanji somehow realizing that Anduin was good and right in trying to kidnap her and getting her father killed.
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I was a Sylvanas fan, and I find your stereotyping of the reasons why people like her to be really offensive. It says much more about you than it does about Forsaken players or anyone else.
She was one of the few interesting characters in the entire game. She was one of the only characters that wasnât a standard fantasy cliche. Thatâs largely gone out the window with BfA, but there were plenty of good reasons to like Sylvanas as a character.
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The tree was corrupted in Vanilla, and the night elves were working on uncorrupting it, but it wasnât a source of corruption. Half the druids opposed Staghelmâs plan, though it seemed like a lot of it was out of spite that he wasnât Malfurion; half of them supported him. All of the priestesses showed every sign of supporting the Teldrassil project as evidenced by building a temple there where Tyrande stayed.
Then, when Malfurion came back, the tree became magically cleansed in a new quest, so all the night elves were okay with it, and it also got some dragon blessings it had been missing.
That said, if it had been evacuated before it had been burned, I think the night elves wouldnât have cared nearly as much.
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Right, I think the fact that it wasnât fully evacuated is why itâs such a point of contention and it probably wouldnât have had the powerful impact that it had on the player base.
Like can you imagine if Undercity wasnât evacuated and was blighted with all the Orc, Tauren, Troll, Forsaken etc races of the Horde (including civilians) still inside it? o.O
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Itâs really a shame, but that motivation is shot, gone, kaput.
Burning the tree was the first and final nail in that coffin. Everything the Alliance does from here on out is completely justified at best and eye for an eye at worst (which will never happen).
Whatâs more unfortunate is the Saurfang questline. Weâve done this before. We know how this likely ends and we know we wonât like it.
Add on that the Alliance is the one making it happen from the shadows. If Sylvanas is overthrown by Saurfang you have just spit in the face of the Sylvanas fans while simultaniously making the Saurfang completely reliant on the faction we were supposed to be fighting, thus robbing the Horde of fixing its own problem. Even if Sylvanas wins the Saurfang part of the Horde loses. Horde loses no matter what.
We needed some unity to make this idiotic faction war work, instead someone took the pre-existing wedge we still had from MoP and drove that sucker in with a 10-ton hammer.
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Man, could you people, just ⊠please NOT, in a thread thatâs supposed to for Horde players and fans? Please?
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This is what I donât understand. I canât even stand to do each followup quest because it implies that I agree with it. Thatâs the reason I stopped playing GW2 and their âLiving Storyâ. I reluctantly âcatch upâ my Horde character because of the psychotic story line itâs forced to participate in as if itâs not a completely psychotic storyline. Once itâs caught up I log it out and return to my Alliance character. That Horde character used to be my main.