Even though I think that Baalsamael is identifying problems that fall far outside of what Blizzard can do (Punch through the overwhelmingly dominant western socio-cultural perspective, something that is extremely difficult even for brilliant people to do to with massive amounts of money focused exclusively on writing) I appreciate that he is at least making affirmative suggestions as to what something that would make the Horde feel less out of place would look like.
It’s too common for Horde players to say things like “Forsaken/Shaman/Whatever should be more involved in these expansion arcs” but not really elaborating on what exactly that would look like and whether or not it would be feasible.
God would it have killed them to incorporate a Shaman land whose purpose is to guide and support the living and whose job is to guard the veil Eternal One Mueh’zala that we learn has been using the lines of communication to steal souls for the Maw like we see in the Tauren heritage and Voljin questlines
Ye imagining a zone divided by like different “cities”. A copy of Ataldazar, a Vale of Eternal Blossoms temple, a Dwarven Citadel, a copy of Auchindoun, a copy of Shadowmoon Burial grounds, a copy of the Shrine of the Storm.
With Bwonsamdi’s Necropolis in the center where Rastakhan manages the needs of all the different ancestral enclaves.
Edit: and if you were part of Bwonsamdi’s Covenant, you had access to all these different gateways, shortcuts to reality, with daily quests involving helping the ancestors help their family in different capacity
I remember when Shadowlands was initially released and there was a marked lack of anything related to Shamanism, I did a whole write up about a potential Shaman-themed covenant and what it’d look like.
The basic idea would be that this Covenant would oversee a realm inhabited by ancestral elders/heroes/spirits. The leadership would be a council of figures concealed by unique and elaborate masks and draped in cloaks/furs/hides/whatever. Their whole schtick would be their ability to travel across the Shadowlands and even into the land of the living- so they’d be the Shadowlands’ seers/military advisors/viziers/emissaries. Call them the Forebearers.
Their ability to travel across time and space and allow others to do so would also explain the ability for certain dead to commune with Shamans in the realm of the living.
The key conflict would anima shortages restricting their ability to foresee the future or communicated as capably. Usually, they’d be the ones seeing stuff like the Jailor’s moves coming and provide the other covenants with their sage wisdom, but now they’re blind and squabbling among themselves. Some (more representative of elders and wisemen) are convinced that they just need to wait and see, leading to endless navel gazing and inaction, while others (more akin to warlords and champions) are more for direct action- even if they’re acting blindly.
And yeah, a zone with more varied terrain like tropical jungles/tundra/grasslands/scrublands and architecture like gigantic shrines, stone circles, longhouses, bonfires, wood/stone structures, and lots of Dwarf, Kul-Tiran, Orc, Tauren, Troll stuff.
Also, Cairne could be our character contact, providing a vehicle for Baine to have some relevance/development. Afterall, the BfA Tauren heritage armor quest saw you travel with Cairne into the Shadowlands (via a shamanic ritual) to deal with a rising threat. It was petty much our first official journey into the realm. And of course, Bwonsamdi would play a big role.
Our first official journey into the realm (if you aren’t going to count every time our characters die) was either in one of those spirit-realm quests in Valgarde or Agmar’s Hammer in WotLK, or in the Ner’zhul encounter in WoD.
Honestly my Forest Troll styled Troll Druid fits into Ardenweald pretty well. I happened to call my DK Baroness before the title was avaliable so, Maldraxxus worked very well for her.
And undead SPriests are already basically vampires, but I happened to write this guy with a European accent already. So floating around Castle Dracula with a Count title fits like a glove.
Bastion’s the only one I’ve struggled with. But not because it’s Alliance themed. I only have about two characters who wouldn’t feel out of place there and neither of their BiS power is Bastion. So I’ve my cowboy themed undead hunter just standing around there awkwardly. He likes large women though so - he’s content at least.
I race changed my Tauren to a Troll and it f’ed up my whole character screen. Even when I log in nobody’s wearing the right thing on the menu. He’s had his clothes on for three weeks lol
That sounds all well and good, but IIRC the whole point of ancestor worship in shamanism is that ancestors don’t go to the Shadowlands, thanks to the influence of Oshu’gun on Draenor and plot magic on Azeroth.
Because I have nothing but (x) doubt that they intend to suddenly make a pure Horde zone in Shadowlands at this point. I think making actual questlines for Thrall, Baine and Calia (considering they are actually in the Shadowlands don’t whinge about them now) would help with them feeling like an afterthought. (Same can be said about the Jaina, and Talia but this is a horde post).
A questlines where the Horde player runs into and works with Carine somewhere would be great imo.
Honestly I wish the Alliance didn’t bore me. I’ve an Irish Worgen Pirate, a Wastewanderer tracker turned Bounty Hunter and a DH who’s basically Snake Pliskin. I really, really wish I could give him 2 eye patches. Who I’d like to write for more.
Also I want to make a Kul Tiran Druid. Just have a straight up, old fashion witch. None of this ‘oh Witches are nuanced’ ish. A Baba Yaga, Weird Sisters, eating lost children in the woods type hag. That’d be fun.
The Alliance is interesting because you can do this and they still won’t feel out of place. It’s the very definition of a blank slate.
They are the JRPG protagonists that are generic so that the player can imprint whatever they want on them. TBH I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a fundamental reason why the Alliance is so prone to being caricatured by Horde players.
I mean with just the Forsaken alone I’ve a friendly German mad scientist, a loving wizard Grandma, a considerably less friendly Italian mad scientist, an idiot savant Vargul, a Poirot esque police inspector, a refreshingly to the point predatory aristocrat and a vaguely communist cowboy.
And as bizarre as the last one is, this is the only expansion where Stanton’s felt out of place. But that’s kind of the case for most of my more down to earth characters have in SL.
Hence me inventing a new character for Ardenweald. And honestly I’m considering rolling an Orc monk styled as a past his prime Burning Blademaster just for Bastion.
I really only have trouble writing Tauren. Have a loose idea for a Bloodtotem monster slayer type based pretty vaguely on the Anwe the Killer legends from Algonquin folklore. But that’s about all I can come up, and I’ve still not got around to unlocking the eagle riding mountain moose men.
Honestly- I just kinda hate PvPing as the bigger races. Tried a Tauren DK and I lost count of how many times a Gnome mage broke away from me because I couldn’t see the guy until he was out of range.
Personally if I were going to play characters like these I’d prefer to do it as Alliance because they wouldn’t all be constrained by their shared undeath. I could make some undead if I wanted but keep others alive.
And the Alliance would be cool with it because that’s how the Alliance rolls. The Alliance is an extremely chill D&D group that welcomes anyone who wants to go on an adventure and save the world. It’s at the point where the only reason anyone isn’t Alliance at this point is because they haven’t asked to join.
You could say the same of the Horde. Who frankly seem to be entertaining the more outlandish ideas. The newest guy at the table is clearly just playing with his fursona but we’re not judging as long as he doesn’t get weird with it.
And I want them to be undead. Adding vampire or zombie to something improves it by a minimum of 15%. Hell the only reason all my Blue characters aren’t Worgen is because they’re pretty strictly Gilnean. Because making something also a werewolf improves it by 10%.
a Discussion about taste isnt such a good idea, i mean, many people like many different things.
Someone like more classic fantasy races like arrogant elves and stubborn dwarfs, then other ones like flesheating zombies or brutal orcs. So its exist not a single "better"one.
Eternal One Mueh’zala that we learn has been using the lines of communication to steal souls for the Maw like we see in the Tauren heritage and Voljin questlines
