Something I haven’t seen yet is actual numbers regarding the impact the Horde cave makes on a game, so I decided to time it myself. Times were done on an epic mount with a carrot on a stick, mithril spurs and riding skill gloves.
For the Alliance to reach Stonehearth GY’s flag from Stormpike Graveyard and reinforce it, it took 49 seconds. 10 people on the Alliance side can respawn at once at SPGY.
For Horde, from the cave to Iceblood Graveyard with the same mount speed takes me 21 seconds along the road. The Horde cave also respawns 20 players at a time.
If Horde cave pushes out 20 players at a time every 30 seconds and it takes us 21 seconds to reinforce IBGY, the Alliance can expect to have to fight those 20 players a minimum of 11 times (11.76, lets assume the .76 doesn’t make it in time) before they successfully capture IBGY. That is 220 HKs over the full 5 minute capture time.
Conversely, the Alliance graveyard is respawning 10 players every 30 seconds and those players have an additional 49 second ride to SHGY. The Horde has to defeat 7 (7.59) respawn waves of 10 in order to capture SHGY. Thats 70 HKs over the full 5 minute capture time.
Obviously you don’t always end up waiting the full 30 second respawn, but this is true for both sides and therefor equal.
I offer no bias and no opinions, just numbers. Form your own conclusions.
Horde just starting to realize how bad they are at the game
I don’t really blame them though. I can’t imagine how little skill I would have developed if all I ever did in PvP was stomp pugs and 40v1 wpvp
Alliance is slowly starting to gain ground back with the AFK ban wave, and it’s hilarious
If you compare our chat logs with what goes on in hordes you would instantly understand why they can’t move the cave
If I was alliance I would feel the same way…I write that to say…I think this is a unbiased and thought out response. here it is.
IT DOESNT MATTER.
You are losing because you are losing the PVP battles, and then not adjusting as the bg map changes. The most successful Alliance groups ive seen…face us head on…we both fight for a while (doesn’t matter where…you are focusing on the map…when this is a pvp issue).
Then the alliance manage to sneak by and grab a crucial GY. Horde doesn’t respond and you gain a foothold below us.
That way when the raids clash together they get to lose all over again without even having their NPC and archer support.
Then come back to the forums claiming the “Dun Baldar Backdoor” is causing them to get squashed in the middle of the field of strife. And then again at SHGY. Then again at Iceblood. Then again at SPGY. That back door at the last strategic point is causing them to lose all those fights before horde can even get near it.
Alliance need to come to terms with one fact. They are, on average, collectively worse at fighting other players than horde.
Always nice to add some hard facts to a discussion. So A has to kill 3 times as many players, with a less advantageous defensive position.
Another relevant number: Travel time between IB and SH. How many reinforcements can the attacking team expect? What if the attackers hold SF?
From the fact that the H never really answers this kind of thing directly, instead attempting to change the subject, I am pretty sure this advantage alone gives the H somewhere in the neighborhood of a 65-35 advantage, if all else were equal and if both sides play the “hurr durr, zerg closest GY” strategy.
This being Classic though, proving that doesn’t necessarily mean Blizz is going to/should change it. Creates a conundrum. Best way out would be a strategy for A that neutralizes this, but there may not be one.
You have cave times but not Rez and run you it to mount times yes it matters. You can’t mount in the cave after res. You can mount at the grave yard when you Rez.
I timed it from the moment I respawned, including the run out, mount up, to the point where I was right next to the flag. You do raise a good point though, I started at the SPGY mounted and rode back to SHGY… I forgot to add in mount up time at SPGY.
good point, knowing the numbers from IBGY → SF and SH → SF would be interesting too.
these numbers show why our “SH Turtle” seems to drag on for 20-30 minutes, while we can’t hold IBGY for more then 3, the times are just too short, healers run out of mana in IBGY, times are just too short, even if we did have the right comp and number of players, all it takes is 20 zugzugs to ram themselves into the brick wall and deal some damage in the process, eventually healers will run dry.
Most horde posters don’t care if you get it moved. The issue is that as soon as it has zero impact, you will do like septic stated above, and blame something else. All the while refusing to accept that it is your own players that cause the low win rate.
It would literally be easier for blizzard to simply replace this garbage tier version with korraks revenge, instead of poking and prodding at 1.12 repeatedly.
I played vanilla, I’m also a game designer, and I know not to compare 15 year old games with modern ones, even if they are suposed clones, people change, the norm changes, iphones get released.
