The Horde: A Different Type of Heroism

Lore Story Forum
483

Have to skip the first portion on account having skipped all of those films plus the lower sections is far more interesting. :laughing:

The problem with the Human portrayal is that Blizz and to an extent the Alliance player base stripped away all the potential for humans to be bad guys. Just look at how often the interment camps which were little more the gladiatorial arenas and slave pens gets hand-waved away because “Orcs invaded first.” While technically true the old adage of “two wrongs do not make a right.” comes to the fore.

As if the likes of Blackthorne was the only human ever to have orcs fight each other for sport. It is this unnatural ultra-moral and ethical humans and Alliance faction that really gets on my nerves more than the Hordes endless villain bat. The Alliance can’t be bad because they have to be the good guy.

In literature the good guy is reactionary. They don’t rise and invade a foreign nation because one day a blood-thirsty warlord will gain the leadership position. They wait for him/her to become the blood-thirsty warlord.

If I had to speculate, I would say this is why the Devs find the Alliance boring. They have no avenue to experiment with making the Alliance a little dark. Doing so would upset parents and neckbeards alike. This makes the Horde far more interesting because they can initiate as well as be initiated against. The Horde has the full range of options. Unfortunately the devs never bothered to really explore what Honour means to the Horde and the Orcs in particular seeing as their view of it tends to drive the whole concept of honour…

Not that those motherless elves would know what such a thing means. Withdrawing support as soon as their borders are secure. :laughing: I am somewhat joking of course. Don’t remember why they withdrew from the Alliance.

Addendum: Its like the internment of Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians. Not only did the respective countries take away their rights, liberties and possessions. Now just imagine if we doubled do with forced labour and gladiatorial death battles.

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484

The problem with this is, it seems more like Blizz “likes writing the Horde” because they feel free to do whatever the hell they want with the Faction with little regards to the consequences. They use the Faction as a Plot-Device for their “vision” … but they don’t seem to really like writing the Faction as a Faction. Which is why for over a decade they run away from EVER building up the WC3 vision of the Faction they constantly use as a bludgeon to have their despotic WC1-WC2 fun. After killing off a WC3 representative, and silencing the rest for years to place their despot in charge in the first place. Its nothing but a wasteland of plot-convenience and neglect.

EDIT: Which is why you can end up with a situation like we have in SLs. Where the Forsaken are nowhere to be seen despite us actively dealing with their source material and true creators (and despite the Forsaken PC Racial fantasy just being DESTROYED). And why Baine, the main rep of arguably the most spirit-worshipping PC race is treated like worthless garbage by his own kidnappers and couldn’t stumble upon a personal story of his own (in the lands of the dead) if he tried. Its ALL “By the Light”, “Human DKs”, and a bit of NE Elune stuff.

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485

To be fair it isn’t like the Horde player base gets TOO angry when they are made villains. Mostly just disappointed when it is a rehash of Garrosh. Most of my friends who used to play weren’t too angry about Garrosh. But once they found out that Sylvanas was getting the Gary treatment they were done. Not because Syl was evil but because they weren’t even remotely inventive.

Where as the purge-squad for Alliance in BfA didn’t make it out of beta. There was a firestorm of butt problems because “We’re the good guys!” Yeah. Never mind the Vulps were helping people who burned down a world tree. But good guys! :laughing:

Can’t have it both ways kids.

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486

We’ve literally spent dozens of threads and thousands of posts saying this sucks. One of my threads on the subject is one of the most viewed/replied to threads since the new forums were launched three years ago.

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487

The Brennadam thing was removed on beta. The last beta build did not have the Horde doing Brennadam. It was the Quillboar.

Then on live, it was the Horde again. An intentional choice of the devs.

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488

I swear yall just be saying crap with zero effort or keeping track of anything at all.

489

Yup. That’s why the Horde old guard got killed off and/or depowered once the original WC crew started moving on to different projects and companies. Their replacements are half assedly developed too. Nobody likes Calia, Baine’s never used unless it’s to help Golden’s characters do something, and I’d bet a huge chunk of the playerbase can’t even name the current Troll leader offhand.

The current crop have been vocal about not wanting to be "tied’ to previous stories, and Golden in particular has been vocal about pushing for shoving Anduin and Jaina into everything.

So this trend probably isn’t gonna go away soon.

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490

There is hope: the fairy tale book brought in a bunch of writers from diverse backgrounds and walks of life. My two favorite and imo best written stories in the book are the Vulpera Spooky Bone Murder Story and the Earthmother story.

491

I just picked one. No sense going down the laundry list.

As for the amount, when the extermination team came up it was something like the whole first page for a while. Compared to the Alliance complaint machine the typical Horde one is almost insignificant. Example: When Sylvanas was revealed for Teld burning same situation. Hell we are still getting threads about it now and that happened over 2 years ago.

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492

And you were wrong

As was Brennadam, and it was changed.

It isn’t.

It was revealed when the prepatch dropped, it wasn’t in testing, any of it, and whenever the devs were asked about it after the teaser image was dropped (Sylvanas watching the tree burn), they insisted “It isn’t what you think, wait and see”, and even then threads were still being made about it pushing back assuming it was what we thought.

Lo and behold, it was what we thought, and we were lied to by the devs.

Do better.

Here is my fourth most viewed and second most replied to thread in this entire subforum of the past three years:

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493

sigh If you can’t be bothered to read the posts please don’t respond to them.

494

Read your post and responded to each part. Your arguments are wrong.

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495

Baal you know that you don’t need to be permanently aggro literally all the time right?

496

You mean my highlighting the Alliance purge team what was in one of the beta’s that had a bunch of posts complaining about the Alliance purging Vulpera? Yeah. Sure what ever.

I don’t like talking to you any way.

497

But the Horde doesn’t complain, does it? The Horde is silent and angry.
The night elves weep relentlessly. The Horde says, “Shut up. All other races have lost as much or more.” And the Horde is silent. Where are the singers of madness from the Horde, bored with everyone like Etriel? No, the Horde comes to the night elves and talks about how bad things are with the Horde, the other races of the Alliance, and therefore the night elves should be silent.

498

Your argument was:

To which I responded:

and you brought up Vulpera

to which I reminded you

to which you responded

This second part is restating your original argument, which is materially incorrect by a simple cursory glance at the Story Forum’s history of posts.

So no, you are incorrect.

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499

sigh This is my last response to you.

Horde who are angry about the state of affairs, quoting you “dozens of threads”. Angry night-elf fans are probably into the hundreds of threads. Threads that run for a couple hundred or more posts each. Once again, more than 2 years on we are still getting fresh Teldrassil threads.

Regarding the Vulpera, I wasn’t even talking to you to begin with. I didn’t post it as a response to you. It was an untagged response to Droite. Sorry I didn’t bother him/her with an unnecessary tag.

As for Brennadam, like I said I chose one of many examples to hold up. I didn’t care to go through all of WoW’s history for every example. That would be a colossal waste of my time.

Not sure why you want to win the most “Squeeky wheel” award but all the power to you.

I’m done dealing with your needlessly hostile personage.

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500

Don’t make verifiably false claims about subjects you evidently either don’t know about or have selective memory about. Have a blessed evening.

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501

Hey Baal what does “March of the Forsaken” mean again?

502

It tells me that they A) don´t know how to read or have serious issues regarding the comprehension of the messages delivered by the narrative to the readers a.k.a. Us or B) they just expect to get preferential treatment and “participate in the criminal activity” WITHOUT the actual drawbacks that are usually involved regarding the Horde portrayal and narrative (ergo Morg´s phrase about “nothing can make the Worgen look bad” or Aihn´s “I would like to blow up away this place full of innocent people and get away with it” a.k.a. ZERO consequences).

Tl;dr: it tells me posters either haven´t really really thought about that petition and make it more as a last minute impulse, lack actual empathy towards the Horde players that are desperately trying to make them see that no, that´s NOT “amazing development” and it actually sucks or are simply looking for a way to cure their hurt egos, period.

Cause no sane individual with actual insight would desire to get the “Horde treatment” regarding the narrative of the game, period.

Best phrase on the whole thread… I´m out of likes, but know you have it.

Wrong -as usual-, we rant about how those are glorified pet characters with narrative plot armor equivalent to irl tungsten designed to make US have to interact with them even if 5 secs ago we were raiding them for purples.

That´s a BIG difference; they are NOT organically “good”, just artificially good. And it´s too noticeable for a lot of us, ergo, they become nothing more than the interactive evidence of Blizz´s 10th rate writting process, period. And that´s quite inmersion breaking, dude… the last thing I w3ant when I log into a game to relax is to see the evidence of how the devs misused MY money into their trash tier story.

You forgot BiS Covenant and incoming BiS Legendary in regards to SL.

So yup, average player mostly cares over gameplay and sometimes doesn´t even recognize the name of their own racial leader…

Someone wasn´t here when the whole Sylvanas Warmongers cinematic launched.

Even my buddies who literally think caring for the story is “a waste of time and for losers” got angry over teh revelation of that video and not precisely because of torched Nelves BUT because it destroyed Sylvanas as a viable leader for the Horde in the game AND it was basically a copy-paste on MoP´s story.

Then next time act like the actual grown up person and don´t imply the Horde gets and maybe deserves the “villain bat” because the players didn´t spam the forums to death… literally putting the blame on the atrocious way Blizzard writes the Horde into the players and washing the dev´s hands clean. That´s rude AF and a falsehood to boot.

Tl;dr: don´t go into the ring if you don´t want to get punched, period.

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