Sister Svalna in ICC did the same thing to the Crusaders that join the raid in the Gauntlet. The Val’kyr clearly have some ability to alter the allegiance of those they raise.
People that claim it makes no sense can’t seem to differ between the methods of resurrection used. Some form of mind control or loyalty check is clear if you look at it as the new forsaken have forced loyalty cause of the Val’kyr, while the original forsaken have free will cause Arthas raised them or the undead plague did.
What doesn’t make sense is the ability for generic Night Elves to resist the Val’kyr. If some of the most powerful paladins couldn’t stop the Val’Kyr from resurrecting them in Icecrown, then why would a bunch of random Night Elves be able to say “lol nope, ima be a wisp now”?
Sister Svalna was already empowered by the Lich King at that time. Not saying the current Val’kyr necessarily lack that ability. But not sure they necessarily have it either.
Probably the fact that the Val’kyr without the Lich King are explicitly weaker than they were with him per Dark Mirror.
The Lich King empowerment only allowed the Val’Kyr to raise stronger undead like the Death Knights, it has no affect on the ability for people to resist being raised. The nine Val’Kyr that bound themselves to Sylvanas are also in some way empowered as they are stronger than the lesser Val’Kyr available to the Forsaken.
Is there a source on that? In my mind, the difference between a Night Elf being able to resist and a human being able to resist is that Night Elves can turn into Wisps upon death.
On the wiki it states for the subsection on the nine Val’kyr that " The Val’kyr are able to raise corpses into undeath, which is how more Forsaken are created. The power of the Lich King previously allowed them to raise more powerful undead in the form of death knights." and that “Multiple Lesser Val’kyr maidens were spotted in the skies during the Battle for Andorhal, and though they can raise corpses these lesser Val’kyr are not part of the original pact and are thus not strong enough to revive Sylvanas.”
From this it seems to be similar to Arthas’ empowerment of being able to raise stronger undead. Sylvanas would qualify as a more elite undead and take a stronger Val’kyr to raise in the same way as it was needed for Death Knights under Arthas.
I’d argue that the nine Val’kyr aren’t really all that much weaker than Arthas’ Val’kyr. And I’d say while they are weakened, it’s not the power gap that people presume it to be.
While I wouldn’t say they can raise Death Knights level of strong, being able to force the loyalty of common soldiers shouldn’t be beyond their abilities realistically. Arthas’ Val’kyr raising elite undead troops and ensuring their loyalty is vastly different than forcing a warden to obey.
Especially if you perceive it as their power is divided between them. Now it’s more of a theory then a solid fact but when they were nine they could only raise Humans, but as time went on and their numbers dropped, they became more powerful and can now summon Elves and such.
Common soldiers? Perhaps not. Night Elves who, though some means, turn into wisps, nature spirits, upon death? This is what I would contend is possibly beyond them. Much how they cannot raise Worgen due to the suffusion of nature magics in them, a task only the Lich King’s empowerment could accomplish.
Whether or not they can isn’t too important in my mind, though. But the matter doesn’t seem clear cut.
I can see what you’re saying, but I think that the strength of a wisp vs a worgen would be different wouldn’t it? Wisps are perceived as being weak individually, neededing to be in large numbers to cause real damage or be of use such as needing millions to defeat Archimond or all of the wisps needed to stall the Horde getting into Darkshore. The worgen spirits would be naturally more resilient and stronger than a single wisp, which would explain why they need more power to do so.
Its the same principle as raising Death Knights vs regular Scourge. The DK’s spirit is stronger than that of a simple man, the same way a worgen is stronger than a single wisp. So while the nine can’t raise worgen, they’d be able to manipulate wisps with ease.
Sure. That’s why Night Elves can be raised at all by these current Val’kyr whereas Worgen cannot. I’m not saying they’re of equivalent strength. Just that the reason Night Elves can resist at all currently when a human seemingly cannot might be due to that.
I might be wrong, but I don’t believe the wisps resisting was a part of the original scenario on the PTR until after the massive backlash. IMO if that’s the case then it seems to be that its more a way of appeasing the community and showing the Night Elves have some strength, rather than staying true to the lore or anything.
We know next to nothing really about the capabilities of Sylvanas’ Val’kyr. We also don’t know their origin beyond Arthas enslaving them. We do know that Val’kyr do traditionally have a lot of control over the physical and mental integrity of those they ressurect however.
Sylvanas herself has never really been bound by the “Free Will” ideology of her people. She also does have a history of treating people like tools for an end-goal. Has she done that with these NEs? Its too early to tell, but it is not beyond her capabilities with the proper motivation.
Sylvanas has apparently been studying various methods of undeath and her own strength has increased as well. In the Drustvar incursion there are apparently Botani infested orcs, and I wouldn’t be shocked to discover she learned how to resurrect elves through her capture, study and torture of Koltira Deathweaver (who she held prisoner from Cata to Legion).
Plainly … we have few answers about a secretive, very tight lipped character.
We actually do know the origin of Val’kyr though? They originally are created by Odin and thus are in a sense titan creations, either bent by the Scourge or willingly submitted to the Lich King. Spirit Healers themselves are supposed to be Val’kyr as well. They have a clear connection to both Odin, Helya and the shadowlands.
As for their capabilities, we know they are becoming more and more adept at raising different species either as they gain power or the one their bound to does. Additionally we know they are powerful enough to reshape the stronger bodies that Sylvanas and Nathanos currently use.
Either way, its safe to assume the same process Odin used to create his Val’kyr is probably very similar to the way Arthas did. He had the ancient cities of the Vrykul in Northrend to learn from.
I think it’s three now. Which is apparently the minimum she needs to rez her self. So she has one last rez and then she is out of Val’Kyr that can raise her.
Kind of hard to say because it has been inconsistent. The first time she only needed one. Second time was three.
Nine at first, then Annhylde took her place.
Agatha, Arthura and Daschla gave themselves in Silverpine.
Aradne dies in Andorhal, assuming she’s a prime, at least she was big.
Brynja, I believe, is who dies at Darkshore?
I think that only leaves Kyra and Signe as seemingly named big ones? And one other.