The few the proud

Classes Rogue
1

Relegated to the shadows, hated by all. For we are rogues.

  • Bugged talents… np damage tuning to the rescue?
  • Stealth randomly breaking for years… np lets nerf vanish protection in PVP by 1.5 seconds
  • Lets give all classes cool new iconic stuff in war within … np rogues get a dinky but shiny coin!
  • Lets give casters infinite range, insta cast on everything, precog. Np melee range too strong nerf!
  • Outlaw has 10 billion things to track…np lets give them a spec with more RNG and stuff to track!
  • Sub has a billion disjoined CDs and poor energy econ outside of dance… np lets nerf energy generation overall (for all 3 specs)!

At this point I honestly would be happy for them just to acknowledge and fix all the rampant bugs that have been reported since Alpha. With a release of August doesn’t leave much time.

I mean don’t get me wrong overall I still really enjoy the sub playstyle but I was just hoping to get one thing that made me go “WOW! this new <insert_new_thing> rogues are getting in TWW is sick!”

Hopefully the remaining few stay vigilant and vocal on the beta forums

16 Likes
2

and billions of multipliers for sub rogue

2 Likes
3

Like I have said before Sub from the DF rework is still in a decent spot but all three specs still need help.

The haste will fix energy problems argument was used before (eg Cataclysm) and it didn’t work back then and will probably not work now.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

5 Likes
4

The impact of haste is a problem in itself imo, we shouldn’t have to wait until season 2+ of an expansion to feel good about our energy

I don’t have a golden solution, but even that one above doesnt solve all the issues. I just think they nuked our energy too hard.

7 Likes
5

So hotfix tuning was applied to deathstalker…which still has mechanical issues since it was launched.

Deathmark count was lowered but damage was increased, so assassin can realistically consume all the marks now, ok. Subtlety still cannot burn all all the marks to use the capstone. That issue still remains.

If a target dies, say a mob in trash in a dungeon, sub can relatively easily reapply the mark since they have shadow dance, ok. Assassination does not have an easy way to apply outside of vanish, which will be paired with deathmark, and that will not be up every trash pull, making the mechanic almost irrelevant in trash, the core mechanic of the tree. Also makes that funnel talent, which was a great idea, don’t get me wrong, almost irrelevant if there isn’t a mark for the funnel to go to.

The other tuning was to talents that have nothing to do with the marks, and are uninspired or not generally well liked it seems (auto attack damage, mut damage during SnD, the assassin 4pc from s2 DF).

Is the idea that its the best that can be done and the passives on the sides are to mitigate the issue? Is there going to be mechanical fixes in the builds coming? if the later is true, doing any tuning right now tbh is not a great look. If the former, that is just utterly ridiculous.

IMO the passive talents, while not great, I do not see as the primary issue atm. I feel that if the core mechanic of the tree was released with clear issues, which haven’t been addressed, and tuning has started, that just looks horrible.

Simple ideas for fixes which I am certain have been said time and time again, make the target dying with the mark grant the darkest night buff, and make it also trigger on consuming X amount of stacks, not all. At any rate, something has to be done with the mark mechanic.

5 Likes
6

They could go back to the old days when energy regen had a static rate (10/sec) which was not linked to Haste. Then add some talents or base abilities that increase this rate.

Ex: Have a choice node with Thistle Tea and Red Bull
Thistle Tea: works as it currently does
Red Bull: passive that increases regen rate by x.

It can be done. Devs just need to not be stuck in their ways and start thinking differently.

4 Likes
7

The reason at the time that Relentless Strikes went from a passive for all three specs to Sub exclusive again was said that to make each spec different. That was the Legion era where they wanted to make each spec like its own class.

But class design is back to making classes whole again and specs still able to shine.

So they need to revert the nerf to Relentless Strikes for Outlaw and Assassination by allowing those specs to have it as a passive again.

And then from there rebalanced all the other energy talents and skills.

Even when Relentless Strikes was sub exclusive it was still able to be picked up early by Assassination or Combat.

Even in Cata it only required 3 talent points to have Relentless Strikes from the Sub tree.

:surfing_man: :surfing_woman:

8

This greatly highlights why trying to force unique hero talents for 2 completely different specs was a miss in my book.

The problem as you eloquently highlighted being that the different specs are so fundamentally different that they end up not being able to leverage the key aspects of the new hero talents.

I sort of wonder if the better solution would have been to:

  1. Add unique hero talents for each spec (non lazy more work approach)

  2. Have better fleshed out hero talents that work overall for the class and not intrinsically tied to spec specific differentiators. Though again given how much variance the specs actually have within a class I def acknowledge the challenge and see why they ran into the above problems.

Rogue is a prime example of the 3 specs play so differently with completely different rotational abilities and playstyles the true commonality coming from the class utility buttons.

  1. The biggest thing for me is that these hero talents are so safe they are simply in the vast majority of cases glorified damage modifiers. They completely solely are focused on altering the damage profile.

Would have been super nice to build deeper into the class playstyle, role and fantasy in terms of utility and other mechanics for what these new hero talents could have been.

The Dream:

When I first heard of hero talents I was so hopeful cause on paper they should super cool

Trickster
What comes to mind:

  • Adding more elements of being elusive
    • Cloak of deception: Being hit while activating cloak of deception places the rogue back in stealth
  • Adding more elements of control
    • Distract now blinds or disarms or reduces damage for all targets hit
  • Adding more element of displacement
    • Using shadow step leaves a shadow clone behind for X seconds. The rogue can chose to swap places with its clone while it is active.
  • Picking apart the enemy via more elements of control, displacement and high burst.

Deathstalker
What comes to mind:

  • The ultimate single target assassin killing machine
  • Pay-offs for sticking to focusing a single target down
  • Adding elements of “marking” your main target giving the rogue access to new things
    • Maybe increased energy regen
    • More potent CC against marked/primary target
    • Adding debuffs to the target based on what they are attacking

Fatebound
What comes to mind:

  • TBH not sure atm, never been fond overly RNG based specs/mechanics. For those that do glad this was at least an option
4 Likes
9

I think you missed the mark here as well. The specs can be super different from each other and you could still create a hero talent tree that still compliments both. The devs simply failed in that regard. The hero tree should focus on lowest common denominators within each spec. So things like increasing rupture’s damage, finishing moves, etc, etc are good. But things that are triggered/dependent on mechanics that greatly benefit one spec over another are poorly designed.

There are hero trees for other classes that are well designed even for specs that juxtapose each other.

1 Like
10

Yes I agree, even after I wrote it I realized there are ways they could have better utilized the more common elements between the specs like you outlined. Still overall though would have been nice for them to break the mold of everything just being about damage as I outlined in the rest of my post.

1 Like
11

I agree with you. They definitely added some cool utility and improvements to Rogue’s utility kits within their hero trees. Cool enough that I wish they existed in the class tree but whatever. I honestly just think that people wouldn’t be as excited for hero trees if there wasn’t enough power tied to it. Its a new expansion and they probably felt the need to add/change something to make players feel more powerful.

1 Like