Worse actually.
They are talking about real people… I am talking about a poorly written fictional “people”.
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Y…yes. That’s exactly the point: it’s nuts.
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Ok.
Question.
Is it wrong to kill demons in Legion?
On Argus, their home world we were literally slaughtering demons called mothers and Aoeing tiny Imps by the hundreds.
You dont see that as evil I assume.
So why do you think its evil to do the same to Orgrimmar or other Horde people?
Especially races like Orcs or Forsaken?
They certainly behave the same way as demons. Hells, Orcs have already destroyed 2 planets all on their own…
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You’re right. I shouldn’t have engaged. I know better, I was just caught off guard I guess. Thank you for the tap on the shoulder; imma just peace out. <3
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No problem sis. Peace.
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Did you payed attention during 8.1? You know the whole destroying of our fleet and killing Rasthakan? You do also know that Horde lost both Darkshore and Arathi right?
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Keyword. Devastating.
The problems with 8.1 was that Zandalari was the one of two Horde groups (at that time) that had nothing to do with Teldrassil. Mag’har was the other (later the Vulpera). The Alliance had reasons dating back to Cata and MoP to deal with Rastakhan but no one wanted to go after him at the time in 8.1. The actual Horde was who needed to be struck at (since the Zandalari hadn’t joined yet).
The fact that Rastakhan was being removed so the shiny new Talanji character could take his place had the subtlety of a baseball bat to the nose. Also the fact the Blizz intended to destroy both fleets in 8.2 made the entire thing come off as giving the Alliance some wins that didn’t matter cause they were getting rid of those things anyway. We got victories over what Blizz was throwing away in the trash bin.
8.1 also had the Night Warrior debacle. The Val’kyr have never been shown to be important in the Alliance story. We kill 10 of them at level 35 in Andorhal questing. So taking an already powerful character, giving that character a power up in the form of the Night Warrior, having the grand payoff be killing a single val’kyr (which we killed off by the tens 85 levels ago) was pitiful. Said Val’kyr didn’t even advance from nameless mook until this questline.
The problem is they made the Horde care about Rastakhan and the Val’kyr were shown to be important to the Horde.
They were nothing to the Alliance.
That is why 8.1 didn’t impress Alliance players, we didn’t care about Rastakhan or val’kyr. We cared about Sylvanas and Blightcaller who was protected by plot armor.
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name good things that the horde has done that wasn’t war crimes, mass murder, torture or genocide?.
and yet still managed to counterattack and humilliate mekkatorke and jaina because the horde is so “metal” that they can’t just take one straigh hit without being able to do anything at all about it. like we did in teldrassil.
and plus, rasthakan wasn’t even horde. when the horde returned the alliance had to run.
so tell me again, is that a devastating defeat to you, like the alliance has been taking for quite some now ? we are a little tired that we can’t hit back hard. because “think about the horde players!”. who thinks about the ally players then?
so of course many of that hate translate here.
all our victories are either off-screen or come at some “great cost”.
like, how do we know that we won the warfronts?
BECAUSE THEY SAID IT ON BLIZZCON! off-screen in a literal place behind a paywall.
how about is the alliance turn to humilliate the other faction?.
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You keep talking about “the Horde” like people talk about “the Democrats” or “the Christians” or “the rich” or “the poor,” as if it’s just a big blob of sentience, just one single thing, and killing “the Horde” means just killing this big blob of sentience. But “the Horde” is made up of individuals, and if you’ve played the game to level cap then you’ve already met a ton of individuals who are both members of races within “the Horde” and also good people trying to do good in the world.
As long as you’re talking about a sentient hive mind blob you can kill without a thought for those individuals, and I’m talking about individuals who are members of a race that’s within a faction, we won’t get anywhere because our baseline assumptions are so far apart we can’t see them from here.
So, no. Peace, dude, I’m done.
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Do people think inserting real life politics and drawing comparisons in a nerd debate make them sound intelligent?
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Cool.
because they do the same with the alliance.
“omg alliance such a bad guy remember camp taco, the purge, and… Storlheilm?!”
“the alliance is also bad guys remember what they did to the vulpera”.
it doesn’t seem like they are interested in separate the alliance from individuals
so why should we?.
and is even funnier when even those individuals are actually good people who have been attacked by the horde before. is not like the alliance wakes up and decides that is a good day to kill and try to conquer the world.
but honestly, maybe they should.
as for your political comparison, is human nature that we separate each other and forms some sort of “tribes” because is in our DNA.
we are tribal by nature.
so i don’t blame anyone for it.
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Sounds like strawmen. Whereas Tyrnathera is addressing your comment.
A weak excuse for not trying to overcome issues. It could be said about various negative behaviors.
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yeah but the thing is, this is a videogame.
would be great to fix all the problems IRL? of course!
but this is a game and is supposed to be fun.
and honestly peace at all cost could be as bad as genocide at this point.
it should be a middle ground.
basically because if it happens again it would be our damn fault and honestly? we would deserve it for letting them.
i hope it doesn’t happen because i want to keep liking the game.
And different people have different ideas about what is fun. And perceptions on events vary. Clearly.
As unfun? I wouldn’t agree with that.
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Even ignoring the real world parallels, the game makes it obvious that the Horde is full of civilians. Shopkeeps, clerks, farmers, apothecaries. It has people who make families and care for their parents, siblings, offspring, and other loved ones. “The Horde” is not just the Horde military.
Although I’m not surprised how one might come to that conclusion.
Much of the problem is that if you’re playing Alliance, you’re exposure to the Horde is largely in the form of the military. Teaming up with Horde heroes (eve those amicable to the Alliance) is intentionally kept to a minimum and working alongside Horde institutions, and actually joining them is rarer still.
Play through the Horde stories though, and you’re constantly being led around by Alliance’s greatest personalities, joining Alliance-founded organizations, and working with Alliance-leaning NPCs.
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In this fictional setting, the horde is presented as a group of people who have been shown as
- Eager to commit genocide
- Tricked into committing genocide
- Powerless to prevent genocide
Whether or not the Horde deserves to be exterminated by the person, it’s hard to justify their existence as an autonomous government. Humans have disrupted nations for less.
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Since the Horde apparently can’t lose, why not just merge all races into the Horde and call it the Murder-Hobo Horde Alliance or something? Then we can all beat on Sylvanas and the other evils of the universe as a cohesive army of destruction. 
I’m with you guys though and totally hear where your coming from. To be honest, I left Alliance originally in BC, because even back then I got tired of the story very quickly. I saw Garrosh and his power-mongering coming a mile away, but that being said even with the Horde suffering under a game of “Musical Warchief”, the story Hordeside ‘is’ better and no I don’t think that’s fair.
Instead, I think it’s a good reason amongst many others for WoW to transition into telling a single story narrative well, rather than be split in resources across dual factions that can never win for game-play reasoning.
And humans who’ve disrupted nations for less also themselves have a history of committing/allowing/abetting genocide.
If we’re not going to be committing genocide and killing massive numbers of Horde citizens, then the other approach to “dismantling the Horde” would be getting them to agree to sign a treaty pushing for demilitarization- although that would require Alliance occupiers/monitors in Kalimdor to ensure they abide by the terms, as well as troops to provide security against threats on Kalimdor because the Horde can’t have standing forces. Unless the Horde can have standing forces, but under certain restrictions and in the case of larger threats, can only operate as an extension of the Alliance.
And/or a regime change, which is functionally what happened. These are never simple either. Replacing everyone in and administration tends to end in disaster because suddenly you have massive numbers of ousted bureaucrats with years/decades of experience being replaced on short notice by people less experienced. And without the mandate of the people, the puppet government may not be as respected. And you still need monitors/occupiers there if you want to really make sure the new government does what you want.
Post-war politics is messy business. This is why Blizzard typically doesn’t deal with it.
It’s easier to create a single BBEG to pin all the blame on and have everyone go their separate ways until the next one shows up. I don’t think Blizzard wants to do “World of Extended Military Occupation.”
Edit: Although for the record, I think a storyline like this could work for a variety of reasons.
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Here is an easy solution.
Alliance wipes out a major Horde population center as a response to what the Horde has done.
Preferably with some sort of super weapon.
If the Horde attack again then it will be used again.
Thereby ensuring that.
A) The Horde is punished.
B) The Horde will never attack again because they are afraid this weapon will be used again.
There you have it. Peace forever.