This is a NEW problem, though. Alliance outnumbered Horde for 14 years. This is the FIRST expansion in history where there have been more Horde players than Alliance. And it happened in an expansion where Alliance had all the advantages (better racials, bonuses in war mode, free loot every week).
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Hasn’t stopped them.
Also hasn’t made them make any kind of visible effort yet…except for AaO, but we all say how much hordies like you whined, b*tched, and moaned about some heroic level gear that didn’t even matter at the time if you could chain run +10s.
Bias doesn’t have to take the form of getting up on stage to crack jokes about how the alliance can’t win BGs without fighting bots. Nerfing AaO in a week while not toughing Zul for literal months when you play the faction you seem to be more than happy to fix problems for while ignoring the other is more than enough.
I’ll spell this out:
He’s in charge of the game development. When he says “fix it”, other devs ask how high he wants them to jump.
He told them to fix AaO because Horde players were complaining.
He didn’t tell them to fix Zul because Alliance players were complaining.
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Who cares? Has nothing to do with population. Has everything to do with active community in the content that is popular. The raiding leaderboard is pretty clear that this has been a problem for a long time. Sure it’s gotten worse lately. It’s now to the point that playing alliance in Mythic+ or Mythic Raiding is clearly being impacted.
I would play alliance if it was an option. At this point I don’t see it as one so I play Pandas/Blood Elf’s and soon Vulpera. Blood elf’s are popular in part because it allows alliance players have a racial home in the horde.
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- A “long time”? Sure. Horde has been punching above its population in raiding ever since Burning Crusade, when Alliance players used to laugh about how bad Horde racials were. That’s always stemmed from the difference in communities between the two factions, which is beyond Blizzard’s control and is something onl the Alliance players can fix.
- In Mythic+, Alliance is vastly superior to Horde in terms of game mechanics, but still people don’t want to play Alliance. Ask yourself why that is.
- Blood Elves have been the highest plurality Horde race since they were introduced, long before there was an exodus from the Alliance.
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I play both and can confirm a huge difference in the amount of groups in the group finder for end game content. Horde obviously has a way larger active playerbase. It might appear balanced if you’re looking at the number of characters that exist, but unplayed characters don’t really matter.
If Blizz offered free transfers to Alliance, with a wow token and a mount as added incentive, I still would be playing mainly Horde.
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Nobody disputes that.
The question is WHY. Especially considering that Alliance has better racials and gets additional free gear every week.
Wait is that even true?
Do you like have data to back that up?
That would be pretty interesting to see ngl
Our best source is realmpop, and yes, this is the first time that realmpop has showed a majority of characters as Horde at max level.
Blizzard has also commented that faction balance remains pretty even, overall.
It’s honestly laughable that you’re even comparing the two. AaO was rewarding heroic gear before mythic gear was even available for almost zero effort. Zul was one boss with one mechanic and other ways to deal with that mechanic such as a priest’s mass dispel. Ion must be biased against non-priests too, right? For that matter I don’t see you complaining about shadowmeld in m+.
Not everything is going to be 100% equal, and that’s okay.
So if what you’re saying is true, can you show that through every expansion but BFA, realmpop shows that there were more Alliance than Horde players?
Personally I think it would have been true to say that wod was when that was the case.
It’s been explained repeatedly throughout the thread. The horde has a better established end-game community. It’s the exact same reason why every PvP server eventually became lop-sided messes. Because when the factions are even in power, eventually one side is going get enough momentum that it becomes the go to faction. Then once community perception sets in, it snowballs.
I’d really like to see your data to back up that this is the “first expansion in history where there have been more horde players than alliance.” At what level are you talking about? End-game? Because a gander at wowprogress proves you wrong.
I’d also say, that if you’re making the statement that people just naturally prefer horde even when alliance have racial advantages… I mean… WoD PvP and the current oceanic servers would like to have a word with you.
Cause I was horde for WoD… I remember the “fun” PvP was back then.
Edit: Using realmpop is entirely the wrong dataset to look at for this conversation. We’re talking about end-game participation, not overall population.
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10-25 Man Mythics. Heroic and normal is alive on alliance, there are people who want to do mythic or have done mythic before on their alts. ( I think i used to do like part time heroic HFC up to like 4/X Mythic HFC way back in Horde WoD while off at school.
Raid leader was a control freak and ragekicked people over playing or pugging with other guilds when he kicked the 2nd tank without a replacement and 60% of the guild left with him and i pugged a run with them and kicked me for getting the [Mythic Sorcethar] achievement in another guild outside of raid week. He also complained when i missed raid nights due to me explaining irl > raiding and i just did it on the side for fun and liked challenging content but wasn’t being paid for it and it was a competitive hobby, not a office job i could commit to and make money off of.
Honestly if you ask me the whole reason why i played horde, was because i liked tigers, thought trolls looked like utter garbage, but their snazzy cat forms were pretty flashy. Also it was the faction of the guy that RAFed me and the condition was that i could play any faction i wanted but the first toon had to be a horde on his server for heirlooms / bags and funding/startup purposes and i could only level one alliance toon for every 5 i leveled.
So i ended up with like 10-15 horde 100s for garrison slaves and like 2-3 alliance over on like Tichondrius but i just kinda got bored. Despite having my ally characters for less time i just find the hillarity of Moonguard Ally absolutely hillarious but i still like also grinding IO to see if i can eventually get from #7 -> #4 -> #3 Realm DH tank with a mere 1.2k io and maybe eventually get to #1 moonguard demon hunter if i can break 1400-1600 io just for kicks and giggles rofl and bragging rights eventually. It’s like being at the top of a local arcade scoreboard you know, more people you see and more fun to hop up 7 spots of 100 vs 70 of a blank 1000 you don’t even know lol.
Realmpop doesn’t have an archive so you’ll have to ask people who have been paying attention to population numbers over the last 10 years, like me.
You could also, I’m sure, go back and find a history of previous discussions where realmpop stats have been quoted over time. That would be the closest thing to hard copy.
I could but you made the claim, right?
The burden of proof is on you to satisfy the requirement of evidence for your claim.
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No proof required… He’s looking at the wrong population of players. It doesn’t matter what the overall population is. It matters what the participating population is. And for that, wowprogress shows horde dominance for quite some time.
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- Yes, Horde has a bigger end-game community NOW. But it didn’t always. Alliance was the dominant faction in the game for many years. What changed?
- The data has come from places like realmpop, from the WoW census tool (although personally I’ve never considered it as reliable), and from statements from Blizzard themselves. First in the 10th anniversary stats blog, and more recently in direct comments.
- Yet even in WoD, when Alliance racials were buffed through the roof and Horde racials were gutted, Horde had the better Mythic raiding scene. Why?
I don’t dispute that there are more people raiding Mythic on Horde. The question is why this is the case.
I know that Tewa is trolling. Anybody can see it.
I’m just stepping through his argument logically to see what he’s doing to dodge the claim. Kinda’ like debugging.
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This is an example right here of why so many people don’t want to play Alliance. We go through this dance over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, whether it’s player population or the math behind which racials are better.
It’s always the same:
- Horde: Here is a statement.
- Alliance: Can you back that up?
- Horde: Here are the sources.
- Alliance: Fake news!!!
And then you guys wonder why nobody will play with you.
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- Not according to wowprogress. Horde has been dominant for… quite some time…
- Which is entirely the wrong dataset to be evaluating in this conversation.
- Which is why I said PvP. Not mythic raiding where they had negligible differences between the two racials.
Again, if it’s just a natural affinity for the horde, why is it that the current day oceanic servers are the exact mirror of the NA servers? Could it be because… it’s a community perception thing that snowballs?
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Because the Alliance population on the Oceanic servers rolls up its sleeves and gets things done, whereas the Alliance population on the US just sits around complaining about how unfair everything is, and the Alliance players who DO get things done are tired of listening to them.
I never said people had a “natural affinity” for the horde, I don’t even know where you’re getting that from.
What I’ve repeatedly said is that the Alliance playerbase - at least in the US - is driving people away from playing Alliance.
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