So, sitting here RPing my Death Knight and a conversation struck up in my guild that had me kind of stumped. I know what the Hunger was instilled in most DK’s as they were 3rd gen, raised by Arthas’s folks.
My orc on the other hand, isn’t a 3rd gen. Rekfar was raised during the Legion invasion by an Orcish spirit speaker and an Acherus Death Knight. He willingly accepted the raising to fight again. I’m just curious for opinions from others, do you think the Eternal Hunger is a programmed addition from Arthas’s lead, or is it an inset piece of every Death Knight from now on?
I’d say that it’s likely something that’s bound to the type of Undeath that Death Knights are raised into rather than just something that Arthas manipulated when raising his knights.
Seeing how powerful Death Knights are and can be compared to other Undead, there has to be some additional drawbacks and the eternal hunger is likely that for Death Knights.
I highly doubt the means by which 4th gens are made is much different from that of 3rd gens, besides perhaps certain traditions. As such one can assume them to be akin to 3rd gens, therefore sharing all that they possess.
In a way you could speculate that the Endless Hunger was Arthas’ doing but likely not something done in addition to the creation process but rather as part of it, assuming 2nd gens don’t also have it; I don’t really know if it applies to them or not. If 2nd gens did have the Endless Hunger then it is more likely what Bravenheart said.
Disclaimer: Everything here is baseless speculation and opinion. I’d prescribe a lot more than a grain of salt.
I personally believe that “4th gen” DKs are a hybridization of 2nd and 3rd generation DKs. They are not “mass attack” troops, as the 3rd gen were (and yes, 3rd gen is a cut above the rest, but they were used like a Roman legion, not small elite strike squads), but aside from being more powerful, due to their resurrection being powered by the Lich King personally, rather than through a simple necromancer (and even if we’re talking middlemen, the Deathlord is doubtlessly much more powerful than the necromancers who raised them at Acherus by now), I figure they’re probably largely the same as 3rds.
That being said, considering the torment both Bolvar and the Deathlord face, they would likely try and find a way to debride the process of its more… “dehumanizing” elements, such as the physical need to cause harm. 2nd gens had no physical need to cause harm, they were driven to such things simply because their runeblades so deeply corrupted and bound their souls- which was also why they couldn’t discard them as the 3rd Gen could.
Lastly, the process seems to require souls of a particular strength in order to work at all. Now, this might be a consequence of hybridizing 2nd Gen strength with 3rd Gen production measures. Who knows? But I figure not just anyone can become a 4th Gen, and the particular list of customers who were brought back that way reinforce my thoughts on the matter.
Just to weigh in on this particular section–I think it’s possible to turn any humanoid soul into a death knight. However, death knights are pretty much the top-tier of the undead food chain, gods and otherworldly entities not withstanding. They utilize incredibly powerful magic and have more free will than the average undead so that they may carry out their master’s plans under their own power(though as seen with the Third Generation, this can backfire), and the ritual to create them requires more power than raising the common undead minions.
So while you can raise anyone as death knight, if you’re going to sink the time and resources into the process you’ll likely want to make sure your candidate already possessed considerable martial skills while they were alive, especially if they had combat skills that translate well to a death knight’s skillset(one of the major reasons so many dead paladins got converted to death knights). Otherwise, you’re going to have to spend even more time after the raising teaching the death knight…how to be a death knight, essentially, which will only burn through more time and resources.
In short–while the ritual likely doesn’t require any particular strength of soul, it’s a much more efficient use of resources to screen your candidates first to ensure quality of the finished product.
There is no lore support for a “4th generation” of Death Knights. If he was raised by Acheruan means than the Hunger for murder is part and parcel of the process. It’s never been more than flavor though.
If there is no lore to support a 4th generation of Death Knights, which generation would you consider the new Four Horsemen to be a part of? Surely they aren’t part of the same generation as the Death Knights that were risen by Arthas, that being the 3rd generation.
Having lost all purpose after the fall of the Lich King, the majority of the Death Knights would have very likely turned to their respective factions and fought on the front lines. Considering what Death Knights are and how they think, that’s not at all a stretch. Then consider all of the things that have happened since Bolvar took the throne. If Death Knights weren’t being created in that time, I really don’t know many, if not all of them haven’t died out by now.
Their individual uniqueness as Death Knights, being their fighting styles, runeblades, and how powerful they are in a specific type of runic magic, has nothing to due with their inclusion in a generation. The use of generations in this case is mostly to tell which span of time they came from, as well as the overarching theme of how or why they were created.
All First Generations were orc warlocks of the Shadow Council made to fight in the Second War, all Second Generations were fallen Knights of the Silver Hand made to serve Arthas, ect. All Fourth Generations were created by the Knights of the Ebon Blade and/or by the Death Lord to increase their ranks so they may do their part in the defense of Azeroth.
You know, dear OP, that is the beauty of playing a DK.
We get so little screentime, that everytime that we do its the best thing since sliced bread. In the meanwhile, you are free to come up with your own interpretation of how things are going down.
Its equally possible that the DKs raised in legion were made so that they weren’t addicted to killing, much alike the 2dn Gen as its possible that it was decided to make it so they became addicted to killing like the 3rd Gen.
Its up to you which one you prefer, its not like blizz is gonna come out to prove you wrong anytime soon lol
I know it’s a huge necro but the question still comes up quite often so I feel its relevant.
I am in no way a DK specialist, but from all the conversation that you have with the 4 Horsemen, they never allude to their need to kill to keep the pain away. I knda remember reading somewhere that this trait was specifically engineered by Arthas out of his own cruelty towards his Death Knights ( the 3rd generation )
It’s just headcannon either way, but I’d argue that the Hunger died with Arthus. That without his influence the Hunger faded away, potentially aided by the new Lich King…
There were quest logs that suggested that it was conditioned into them.
Snippets that alluded to dark powers that Arthas bargained with to raise the death knight.
And hints that it was a necromantic part of that particular “model” of death knight.
TLDR:
Blizzard has retconned too many things, and Scourge experimentation means that the sky is the limit with whats possible with the undead and Death knights.
The anima that suspends your dead form and binds your soul to it needs to be constantly maintained, as it is also expended in your spells and attacks (your source of runic power).
I believe the short story written shortly before Shadowlands (I forgot the name) alluded to the fourth generation indeed receiving the Eternal Hunger, though not necessarily as intensely. I imagine some can go quite long without, and/or find other ways of mitigating it for longer periods of time than previous generations.
That’s how I play mine, at any rate.
You do see some Death Knights beginning to have something akin to positive feelings as well, after Arthas, and I’d imagine the experience is much more ‘human’ than it was before.
I RP mine as still having faith in the Light, (He is a former Lordaeronian Paladin- this character is a half-elf) even if he can’t use it. This faith helps him keep the Hunger at bay for much longer than normal, though unfortunately every time he must deal with it, it also causes him to feel guilt.
Mostly he takes it out on cultists, to make him feel less guilty about it.
It’s your choice. if you want to be a 4th gen with the Hunger for Murder, then you’re someone who Came Back Wrong.
Necromancy in World of Warcraft almost always results in someone coming back wrong:
Death Knights are intentionally designed to be damaged in some way so they can be better killing machines for the Lich King.
Cataclysm gives us the Rotbrain, which are the new villains of Deathknell. One priest sadly notes that they seem human outside, but are sick within. They eventually rally and plan to take over the town, and must be killed.
An alternate interpretation of the “Rotbrain” is that they’ve come back wrong in a different way: without the blind devotion to the Forsaken that undead player characters possess.
According to Word of God, this is the case for the Forsaken. The state of undeath is an imperfect “chain” of dark magic holding the soul of a person to their rotting corpse, and these chains cause malevolent tendencies and negative emotions to become more apparent. Forsaken can still feel positive emotion, though, so they’re not monsters, they can rise above it and become Anti Heroes.
Sylvanas’s short story revealed there is another underlying issue with the Forsaken. Being torn from the afterlife damaged their souls, which could play a part in their darker tendencies. Worse this seems to have condemned them to a hellish afterlife.
The Legion expansion actually managed to invert the trope in one instance. High Inquisitor Sally Whitemane was a zealous murderer and completely insane in life. When chosen to be risen by the Knights of the Ebon Blade into a Death Knight, she’s focused and stable again. Death has a way of quelling the madness of the mind.
