Na people loved Ulduar and ICC. The complaints about ICC happened after the 5% stacking “nerf” made it faceroll.
But hey leaving out important information like that fits your agenda so, you do you.
try again. people loved the design of ulduar. plenty of people complained about why hard mode/heroic wasnt the default difficulty. 10 man is just welfare epics, etc etc etc.
They just got rid of layering. No sht there are ques.
Man people like you LOVE to ignore details and context to further your point. Your either really that dumb or you just leave things out to fit your side of the coin.
Its fascinating. Common tactic though, I’ll give you that.
You seem like the kind of person who would say “did you know that 100% of dead people DIED at some point!?” and not understand how ridiculously stupid it is.
Classic wont be able to sustain the 40 man raid model for long. Easy raids allow less than optimal specs and lower numbers to clear content. Making it harder means min max attitudes which leads to drama which leads to quitting.
The 40 man raid model doesn’t work with harder difficulty levels - the challenge in MC is primarily on organization of execution of 40 people working together vs the 25 you find in retail, or is it only 20?
Choreography for a huge crowd of 40 people is exponentially more difficulty, and that is meant literally. So, the fights in Aq and Naxx will have to suffice as a challenge. If you, OP, or anyone reading this, are one of the people who have played private servers to death and can raid all of Classic with your eyes closed, then you had your challenge years ago when you were learning and you’ve outgrown it now – you don’t get that back, and you don’t get to tell us who haven’t done it that we get to lose out on our fair shot to do what you already did years ago on Nostalrius or Lights Hope or something.
Maybe it’s time you moved on from Classic? Or just keep playing what Blizzard supplies; but the minority of people who feel as you do should not have enough influence to ruin the game for the majority who are still struggling to make attendance numbers for onyxia and MC, and are attempting Rag with fewer than 30 people in the raid.
If you would like harder raiding, please drop your raid population to 20 people, and don’t wear the gear you got from MC, don’t use consumables, don’t even use some spells, ok?
You’re gonna have to institute player-driven challenges, because Blizzard isn’t changing the game for you.
1 Like
Can someone explain to me why it sounds like he’s tapping a key every 0.1 seconds with a 1.5 second cooldown? I get trying to minimize delay between skills but that seems like a lot of wasted effort in button mashing.
[quote=“Galdor-maelstrom, post:16, topic:362510”]
It’s funny to go back and read posts like these:
Kolben:
Some seem to think that all of Vanilla/Classic raiding is LFR difficulty level.
Anyone who has never done anything but LFR and steps into Molten Core thinking it will be of similar difficulty is going to be in for a rude awakening. It’s going to be funny to watch. MC is very basic and not difficult but it is still much harder than modern WoW LFR. It requires coordination and leadership and most players knowing their roles and performing them at a minimum level of competence, none of which can be said for LFR.
Fair enough. I was thinking it would be on par with private servers, but it’s obvious now that pservers buffed the content, and MC is obviously a nerfed version of what it was in earlier patches and/or classes were buffed to make it seem like everything is nerfed, or most likely a combination of the two. And you can’t tell me it was always like that… firelords dying with one spawn max in a 20-man raid. Used to be 2, 3, 4 spawns in a full 40-man in blue gear. DPSers aren’t spamming frost bolt and sinister strike 2-3 TIMES as fast as they used to.
Yes, the majority are better players than back then, but I think Classic has a much more hardcore average population than retail overall…really bad players just aren’t playing Classic, IMO… they don’t have any interest in it and they don’t have the patience.
But given all that, I’d still say LFR is easier than Classic MC, at least from what I’ve experienced of it. Try pulling the whole first room in MC at once and see what happens. You still need to have a minimum level of order and discipline to pull only 1-2 groups at a time as you move through it, or you get overwhelmed. In my experience in LFR, everyone is nearly unkillable, so you can pull as many packs as you want and still not die, stand in the fire all you want, and it requires zero communication and coordination and zero discipline or skill level.
Classic MC is bare minimum entry level raiding, admittedly, but it IS real raiding, and not full on story mode like LFR.
I take it that you, and many others, did not read my post.
Never was it stated that I think Molten Core should be turned into some brutal cutting edge raid. Simply that it’s made to be somewhat challenging. Right now, it’s not. At all.
Never did I say want mechanics added. Vanillas about preparation, not mechanics. I want that PREPARATION to matter, just like it did back in the day. Bosses #s adjusted to make it so what you do outside of raid is relevant. So that your rewarded for farming your prebis and proper itemization.
It doesn’t even matter right now. You can go in with greens and afk, and even with an undermanned group - still stomp everything.
I don’t want it to be brutally difficult because fundamentally it’s not. But it’s a joke atm.
And this whole “it’s about getting 40 people”. You don’t need 40. At all. It’s still really really easy with 30.
Or, join the Warcraftlog game with what you presently have, for added metric, challenge or fun?
Oh it matters, still if you are one of forty people who value their time and want to chase log scoring.
Or do you mean gearing? Because there is an interesting balance between gear and coordination that only Classic 40 mans can provide. You can make up a lot of gear ground with coordination (Apes) but if people are goofing off, with the best gear, you are wasting time.
Im sorry but this is an exaggeration. What the 39 other players do, matters. How fast are you clearing your raids with AFK players? You are referring to Apes again…are you still sore about their hyper focused speedrun? Dude they are on a completely different level. PUGs are still wiping. Hell, solid guilds are still wiping. But with focus, you clear it eventually.
Most guilds are cozy doing it 2x a week, not every what… 45 minutes, as you suggest possible.
Classic was never much harder than it is now, and wasnt even hard compared to m+ now.
How many times are you clearing with 30 a day, or in a week (limits withstanding)? Got logs? Super curious. You guys sound amazing and Id love to watch. That is some serious dedication.
1 Like
Past tense 
Archi, Avatar, Kj, and Uunat are total next-level fights. But comparing T11 to what had come prior… yeesh. It was also unique in that it didn’t really have freebie bosses or anything that was way out there in difficulty. TBH if it weren’t broken it would’ve been an amazing tier.
2 Likes
Eh, Heroic Bastion wasn’t a cakewalk and even Normal Bastion was profoundly harder than anything Naxx, Sarth, or Maly threw our way.
But, Cata saw the usual surge new xpac’s get and then quickly dropped off for a LOT of reasons:
- Far less accessible heroics
- Very disconnected world with everyone chilling in SW/Org
- A very hated leveling zone
- The first time we had talent trees culled back on top of minimum point restrictions, skills for just selecting a primary tree, and armor class bonuses
- Reputation grinds were lame, unrewarding, and scattered all over the world, it was TBC daily farming but without the new hotness and the promise of a Netherdrake at the end
- “New” content was a ton old content with a fresh face of paint
- THE LONGEST FRIGGIN TIME EVER WAITING IN ICC FOR CATA TO COME OUT
- Every, damn, plot point centered on Thrall and he gets to do everything in the end
In retrospect, Cata really wasn’t bad, but it was the first painful step towards attempting to strike a unique balance between the hardcore and the casual, while streamlining bloated talent trees. Firelands was actually very well received but Dragonsoul was absolutely terrible, both story and content wise. Cata also came when the MMORPG market was at its saturation peak, so it was bound to lose subs somewhere along the way anyway, which only fueled the usual doom/gloom posters.
As for your original point: no. People knew, or know now, what they’ve signed up for in Classic. I’m looking forward to blazing through AQ40 if for no other reason than coming to the realization that even those nasty packs after Twin Emps weren’t actually that bad. I actually don’t mind at all that I don’t feel the need to login every day on my main character to grind yet another thing.
1 Like
Catacylsm is a good point. It’s interesting when you see people refer back to cata and how few of them mention what people really didn’t like about the expansion. Which was the difficulty of the content compared to how easy wotlk was. Many people would have stuck around if they could have participated in the content.
Even MOP raid content was steps above what the average raider saw in WOTLK. Eventualy FLEX raiding fixed the problem but by then it was little too late for that. Oque and other group finders kept the game relevant. LFR helped some what, but it divided the community significantly.
The fact is many people are playing classic right now because of how easy the raid content is. These people wouldn’t stick around if progression raiding was actually a thing in classic.
But unfortunately for me it makes classic really boring.
2 Likes
you just answered yourself
This. Even for dungeons as well. No wants to join an at level or lower lvl brd group just to see how far we can get. Wipes and all.
1 Like
WTB TBC
1 Like
No thanks.
Easier raiding is more fun.
Games do not have to be challenging to be fun.
3 Likes
No, but DPSers weren’t all running Deadly Boss Mods or Big Wigs, and they weren’t all using the same optimized cookie cutter talent set off of Icy Veins. Once again, the reason behind an unpopular design decision is exposed. Every raider runs the same set of talents. When the game becomes all about raiding, the talent trees just handicap the average player who doesn’t look up the optimized builds on the internet. The same people who rushed to level 60 in the first month of the game’s release are the ones who use min-maxed cookie cutter builds and rotations. 10 years of insanely difficult raid content has trained modern players to do that. 14 years ago, a quarter of your raid knew what it was doing and the rest were there for the lulz. That’s why you didn’t see anything like that. If you want an “authentic” Vanilla experience, recruit a bunch of 14 year olds in to your guild, prohibit them from using addons, and ask them to come up with their own builds.
I’m leveling right now, and I see plenty of mages using Fire Blast and Fire Bolt even though it’s “commonly known” that the one-button Frost Bolt spam is optimal for single target and Arcane Explosion is optimal for AOE. Another mage in the dungeon was even getting on me for using Arcane Explosion instead of Blizzard and exposing myself to damage even though I was doing 4x his DPS every fight. Bad players are still out there. You just don’t see them when you rush to the raid in your first month and only ever play with others who did the same.
1 Like
To you. Because you research your build and rotation. You optimize your gear. Most players don’t do that. At all.
This is expected. Preach pointed this out six years ago:
Literally players wearing pirate hats in raid. All the way to Naxx. Designed around 25 decent players and 15 others along for the ride.
Believe me, I explained the mechanics at length and in detail over Vent (which is what we used back then). They were just too hard for Normal-level raiders to master.