No changes.
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Why are you so defensive, so nasty about it? I was genuine in trying to make my post as friendly as possible, it wasn’t demanding. I wasn’t “screw everybody the game will die”. Who in life hurt you so much to be so off-putting and incapable of honest discussion?
It was a large part of classic. Theme park MMOs and raiding go hand-in-hand. When people glossed over vanilla, one of the things they celebrated the most was how awesome 40-man raiding was. Maybe’s its not a big thing for YOU but YOU don’t represent the whole community.
Everybody knew there was going to be a spike in subs. Duh. Its been hyped like crazy, its something new for a lot of people in a time where retail is being looked down upon. Is your brain really that simplistic? Do you really see it as “Classic brought in a lot of subs, classic raids are easy, ergo people like easy raids”. There would have been a huge spike in subs even if the game was cut-off at level 30.
Leave “our” classic WoW alone? Sorry buddy, its not YOURS. Nor did I ever say it SHOULD be mythic raiding. Again, who hurt you and made you so antagonistic?
No, its would make for a better experience for the majority of players. People are quitting left and right because the endgame is boring af. Just because you like to grind one bar a day and create a million alts doesn’t mean that everybody does. And how does the raids being a little bit harder affect you? How does that take away from the things you like, if you’re not interested in raiding? Your argument is the embodiment of so many logical fallacies.
Your blasting it because you are clearly a very, very angry person. Your not capable of looking at it through any other lens besides “I LIKE IT THIS WAY DON"T CHANGE MY THING AT ALL”.
Which explains why WotLK, the easiest overall xpac, which made leveling zones highly linear, added in numerous easier versions of raids, provided basically the first series of ‘catch up’ dungeons when ICC released, put in several easy solo raid bosses in the dragon temple, and even easier ones in the pvp zone- was the most played and best received mmo xpac of all time.
Thing is- gear and time wise, even mythic raids/M 10+ is extremely easy to get into. It may take more skill, but skill has never been the crux of an MMO, time has. Yet few players do higher M+ more than the once a week for a chest, and even fewer do m raids. It’s easier to get into- harder content- yet nobody is doing it.
And BfA’s had the biggest population drop off of any xpac since Cata.
Keep in mind we’re in the final patch- which makes early raids easier, but it’s not going to change the gruelling difficulty of Naxx or even AQ much. Most of what will make those seem easier is a decade of players mastering it.
I’m sure there are people out there that want more challenging raid content- but I’d wager the vast majority don’t, I’d also wager the vast majority of players playing right now won’t clear Naxx, just like they didn’t back then. Not everyone is a hardcore pserver player who’s been doing this for years.
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Cataclysm had ridiculously over-tuned FIVE MAN content. The Raid content was never considered way too hard.
TBC and WotLK had some extremely challenging raid content. TBC and WotLK are widely the two best points in the games history. See how easily your logic works against you my friend?
Those aren’t unavoidable changes, nor does the fact that your calling my suggested change bad, make it bad. Perhaps you could actually make a point about WHY you think its bad?
Hahahahah I love when people say crap like that. “Make it hard”. I’m gonna go drive with a blindfold on to make it MORE CHALLENGING.
People like conquering real challenges in games, not there own pretend ones. We both know this.
(Also its still faceroll with none of those thing’s).
The experience is what matters, NOT the numbers. Virtually nobody remembers Ragnaros having 1.1M hp, but those that did raid in vanilla do remember having to use fire resist to survive and having to condense for a submerge for the Sons of Flame and then spread back out when he emerges. Classic Ragnaros has 1.1M hp, but you only need a couple of Greater Fire Protection potions and you don’t have to worry about the submerge phase AT ALL if everyone (or most) is pulling their weight. Clearly, it missed the mark horribly.
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I don’t want Mythic raid content. I want something that’s not a complete and total cakewalk. I want to have to try, not just show up and get loot.
Huge difference.
WotLK was at its peak with Ulduar and ICC. Ulduar and ICC are considered fantastic raids with a range of content that was puggable to being brutally challenging for the best players.
Coincidence?
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Nope, blizzard quite literally stated in their reddit AMA that they specifically and intentionally shied away from recreating the classic experience (which is subjective) in favor of the classic data, which is objective.
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Hit the nail on the head here.
But I’m sure you guys will throw a billion logical fallacies at him that all boil down to “I DON’T LIKE ANY KIND OF CHANGE”.
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You’re the one being antagonistic with this BS:
Claiming to speak for the majority of players is sheer arrogance. Show me the actual market research that indicates that most players want harder raids. Every single game that has promoted harder raiding as its draw has flopped spectacularly, starting with Cataclysm.
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The problem is that ‘best possible experience’ doesn’t mean the same thing to different people.
I wouldn’t if the changes didn’t resemble vanilla. Making it challenging just because we can would not be something I would support.
Then you don’t want Vanilla- and most people are already sick of the things Blizz already has done to change the game. If anything, I think the #nochanges crowd is sitting back and looking at all the people that begged for changes, got them, and now regret them and saying ‘you thought you did, but you didn’t.’
This wouldn’t even be a small change- this would basically be remaking the game, and require Blizz to rebalance bosses which is a recipe for disaster.
If they added in some sort of challenge mode where bosses were harder but didn’t give better gear- nobody would do it. If they put in better gear- first off, they’d have to make new gear and add it to the game, and secondly, everyone that didn’t want it would be forced to do it to stay endgame relevant.
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Technically the content wasn’t overtuned as the heroics were significantly easier than the normal raids. This is comparing a group of friends with the gear level the content was designed around. The problem was people were used to handouts from WotLK and they had to deal with mechanics that can easily wipe the group when Cataclysm launched. It would be like if they all of a sudden made it so you can’t ignore mechanics anymore in LFR for the new expansion.
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No my post was very friendly with the goal of opening up a discussion. You got butthurt.
My data is my bleeding friends list and all of the posts complaining about how easy and boring the game is.
TBC had harder raiding. Huge success.
WotLK had Ulduar and ICC, quite challenging and fondly remembered. Huge success.
MoP, hated on release and loved for its later raid content, ToT and Siege.
See how garbage your claims are? See how easy it is to dispute them?
Your AWARE that Cata didn’t boast about harder raid content right? FIVE MANS, were made much more challenging.
That was a poor decision considering the demand was for the experience and not the numbers for 95%+ of the playerbase.
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No I do want vanilla. See how easy that is.
I don’t want a watered down vanilla that’s braindead. I want a semi-authentic experience. People didn’t kill rag in greens at level 55 in vanilla.
Perhaps you don’t want vanilla if your cool with the raids being that face roll?
Finally something we both agree on.
Before LFR was introduced, it certainly was. Wrath had starter raids that were readily accessible to everyone, and even the harder raids were gradually nerfed to make them widely accessible. More importantly, they had a gear progression curve. You weren’t jumping straight into ICC without ever having set foot in Ulduar or Naxx.
I cleared full Heroic Dragon Soul, and I’m telling you that it wasn’t easy, especially on dead servers like mine. My guild was the first to clear it on our server, months after it had been cleared on the high pop servers. The burn-out from that experience pretty much led to me quit WoW. The only reason I was even raiding Dragon Soul was that all the casual guilds had completely died, leaving raiding guilds as my only option.
People downed rag in 2005 in trash gear and with half the raid afk or doing other nonsense. It hasn’t changed at all.
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Numbers. Straight. From. The. Butt.
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You are playing the wrong game. Harder raids are in retail. Classic is not and never will be a new game, it’s a recreation of the original WoW.
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Please stop lying. You clearly didn’t play WotLK. You just completely shot yourself in the foot.
Early WotLK is not why its fondly remembered. It spiked hard, and dropped off quick because the early raid content was super easy. Ulduar and the ICC era are why people loved that expansion.
ICC and to some extent, Ulduar were NOT designed with progressive raiding in mind. ICC had so many catch-up mechanics, and mostly invalidated previous raid content. The ONLY reason to go back into Ulduar or TotC was for the legendary grind. That’s it. Both raids were designed to be current content. That’s where the trend of having one raid tier with multiple difficulties started.
First off I don’t buy that for a moment. You just seem like somebody who makes things up to try and back up what they’re saying.
And if it is true, you and many other burned out after Dragon Soul because Dragon Soul is considered the single WORST raid of all time.
Siege of Org is a beloved raid. People raided it hardcore for months and months. It was HARD. They kept raiding though because it was FUN.