Thats actually a massive problem of this player base, soo many people who play this game take pov of characters as 100% fact, no matter how many times blizzard shows that characters can be fallible.
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There are no other more reliable sources.
The lack of sources doesnt make POV ever right
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But the lack of contrary sources certainly can.
You can’t honestly believe that Blizz would let that sort of statement sit for over a year if it was erroneous.
This is perfectly reasonable.
No, it isn’t. And yes, that’s more-or-less what happened.
It’s not satisfying but as others have said, it could end no other way (that Blizzard would be willing to end it).
Essentially what’s going on is the equivalent of us being told: this time they mean it, guys, for real.
Unfortunately, with all our well merited reservations, the best outcome currently is for the Alliance to take Horde at their word whether or not they mean it. The important take away from the end of the war is the end of the fighting between the factions. Especially now that, as you and everyone else knew, we have to come together to face the Big Bad for the greater good.
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The thing about stories is that they typically end with the bad guy getting his or her comeuppance. The Horde - not the players - has not paid for their (war)crimes and aggression in the story of World of Warcraft. It wouldn’t even have to be paid for in blood or humiliation. As Revissa suggests there is such a thing as penance - I know, I can hear your responses already: wait and see, give it time.
The problem is that Horde players keep saying that if that happens, they’ll feel bad. So we’re defending the narrative, the story elements of WoW, for meta reasons. Not because it makes any sense in-lore or follows the usual beats of all our other stories we typically consume in entertainment.
We’ve been waiting since before Battle for Azeroth for justice, but it’s not something that was ever going to manifest. The best we’re going to get is an armistice which is what we’re seeing with 8.3.
Being villain-batted, as you say, is a meta aspect of the story, not within the story itself. Anduin and Genn aren’t discussing how rough the Horde has it being depicted the bad guys again.
And, again, the outcome for the war could not have gone differently. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s poor form.
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I just want to make it clear that I think the whole faction war has been garbage, and I wish it had never happened.
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Neither of these things is true. There was no official treaty after MoP, and we don’t know who broke the peace in WoD (each side blames the other, and neither version of events is confirmed).
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Oh, I’m aware and in agreement. We’re all getting shafted somehow.
The only people making out like bandits are the kind that get on stage at Blizzcon with their Horde band and shout expletives at Alliance players.
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I have evidence from in-game dialogue to the contrary, and have posted it.
It’s largely indicated that the Horde attacked the Alliance in Ashran because they were looking for a weapon, and wouldn’t share their findings with the Horde, so the Horde lashed out. Talk to the Horde commander in Warspear.
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You stated nothing following, on how this should occur and generally i disagreex because the horde and its players run hand in hand, what you do to the horde you do to its players. They’re the ones who have to play through it.
There is no more ‘waiting and seeing’ wod the orc expansion was cut short we waited, during legion, we waited while the alliance got to take the front seat. Now you’ll have us wait even longer. It dosent work like that.
The only pennance i can see the horde player actually going along with is saving the alliance in a time of great need, which I know many ally players wont be kewl with.
The pennance you and many others seem to seek is the horde self flogging themselves while marching around ashenvale saying im sorry.
Blizzard wrote a check they couldent cash, with the war of thornes for both the alliance and the horde. Not enough redemption nor justice to go around.
Its that simple, we all just need to move on at this point unless they want to completely dismantle one faction.
The flaw in your logic is that in this game the player character is seen as a major cataylist in the story, what happens to the horde, the horde character has to play through, and accept thats also what their character participated in.
Besides, I havent you havent even mentioned what enough ‘pennence’ if you wish to call it that would be.
So yes, ill defend the meta narrative in this point because what you suggest does nothing but makes one side feel bad (which we’ve already been told time and time again this expansion that were bad and should feel bad), and in all honnesty, probably still wont ‘satisify’ the other side.
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You stated nothing following, on how this should occur and generally i disagreex because the horde and its players run hand in hand, what you do to the horde you do to its players. They’re the ones who have to play through it.
I DID give an example of how that could happen; helping the night elves rebuild their homes.
wod the orc expansion was cut short we waited, during legion, we waited while the alliance got to take the front seat. Now you’ll have us wait even longer. It dosent work like that.
For Pete’s sake. BFA was a Horde story. WoD was a Horde story, MoP was a Horde story… And if you want to pretend that Legion was an Alliance story, then Cata was a Horde story.
The pennance you and many others seem to seek is the horde self flogging themselves while marching around ashenvale saying im sorry.
No, it’s not, and you know it’s not.
Its that simple, we all just need to move on at this point unless they want to completely dismantle one faction.
That’s real easy for the Horde to say, for the straight reason that you know, if this went the way any story would logically go, from this point, the outcome might not be favorable to the side you like and participate in.
But that’s been the Alliance’s lot for the majority of WoW’s life.
we’ve already been told time and time again this expansion that were bad and should feel bad
No, you haven’t. That’s a meta discussion. Because once again, In-game the ENTIRE DEBACLE is being laid at Sylvanas’ feet! And that’s the problem, you’re conflating meta discussions with in-game discourse.
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Really not easy for anyone to say.
Have you played the horde side at all?
Oh great just like when we helped tyranda save her husband in legion, while she kept making snarky commets and threating to kill us all along the way? Wow… what a heroic fantsity that would be.
What would that even involve? Just collecting lumber for the night elves and doing manual labor for them?
Yikes.
What would be better is if the night elves said screw you we aint need yo help and did it themselves. That would speak much more to their resilency.
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I really do not like the “ve vase following vorders!” take Blizzard is trying to pander. Very uncomfortable implications.
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From my understanding, the usual desire is not for the Horde to punish itself, but for it to be punished. A desire I can sympathize with.
Ironically, in the aftermath of Sylvanas leaving the Horde, you actually get to see the victorious Honor-Horde punishing the Loyalist-Horde that sided with her. They’re paraded around in chains and being discriminated against in Orgrimmar.
I don’t know why they’re doing this, but I’d guess it’s to show that the Bad Guys that did the Bad Stuff and sided with the Bad Lady are getting punished for their badness, and that badness isn’t good and doesn’t pay in the end.
The most frequent request from Night Elves after that, is to get Darkshore and Ashenvale back completely and have it show in-game.
This much is true. They were never going to be able to deliver on the premise of this expansion: Alliance vs Horde.
That’s what 8.3 and the peace between the Alliance and Horde is all about. It’s what this thread is about. We are moving on in the story because we have to move on, because it’s better for everyone if we move on even if we don’t want to move on.
Withdrawing from Night Elf lands and leaving them alone would be great and wouldn’t cost the Horde anything except pride maybe? The land they took from the Night Elves in the first place?
If you want to be mad at Night Elf and Alliance players for wanting to lash out at the Horde for the stuff that happened in Battle for Azeroth, that’s fine. But hopefully you understand the reason for it.
Blizzard’s greatest ‘victory’ has been igniting the player base in an expansion of reconciliation.
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It’s super easy for the Horde to say “Okay let’s move on” While the Alliance reels from the citizens murdered.
I have played plenty of Hordeside, yes, and besides the occasional. “Hmm, maybe this isn’t great” all the blame is “Sylvanas is leading us down a dark path, harumph.”
Most of the Tyrande stuff was left in beta. I am flabbergasted that the notion of the Horde lifting a single solitary finger to clean up the mess they made is such a distasteful idea to you. “Yikes” indeed.
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The implication is though it would be forced upon them (i.e someone forcing them to do that, ie marching through ashenvale), not the player making that choice.
The horde has already been ran over much worse than the alliance this xpack(villan batted so alliance could play hero again). no need to throw it in reverse and run it over again when it will benefit no one, only tick off horde players, and the alliance STILL wont be satisfied. So there is actually no point in going down that route unless your only goal is to create more animosity.
Im down as long as the forsaken get their lands back too. Talk about a race that has truly gotten nothing this xpack.
Not mad just tired of the lack of empathy. Iv generally been very restrained, but seeing threads like this pop up time and time again, and posts like this pop up time and time again claiming to be unbiased, well now ima start calling them out.
So, do I blame alliance player for wanting to last out? Nope not at all. Do I blame players for rebutting threads like this? Nope not at all bfa has been written very manipulately.
The night elves at least got something, the undead have gotten nothing. Ya dood i really dont wanna help the night elfs for a story i had no say in, oH hOw HoRrIaBlE oF mE.
As I said before its not easy for either side to move on, and I think you’ve missed a ton on the horde side of thats all you got.
Whats more distasteful is ya’ll trying to force that upon others, thread after thread, after thread, again for a story they had no say in.
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Play hero? They were barely involved in the story at all! The Alliance was basically a force for this entirely Horde-centric story to massacre, bounce off of, and react to. And I’m not saying that’s better or worse than what the Horde got but give me a break like this was a fun story for the Alliance.
- She says, while explaining why the genocided race shouldn’t pursue justice.
If you had no say in it why do you feel bad about helping them? Why is helping people who were wronged bad?
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It accomplishes nothing besides throwing mistakes back in your face like happened time and time again this expansion, in a half hearted attempt to make others feel bad. See above posts. Because it would waste everyones time and further prolong moving on from this trainwreck.
You’re still not gonna like the horde even if we do help ya.
Thats what the alliance did, dident they? Sadly this was the horde story xpack, but overall id say this alliance was still very invloved in this expansion, more so than the horde was last half of legion.
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The only realistic way to make peace is by bonding. I don’t mean political marriage or something weird like that (but it did work) but when you want peace, in general, you have to make some concessions as trust builders.
Have an alliance ambassador at the horde’s council to show goodwill, initiate commerce, etc. There’s plenty of ways to ease tensions between parties. But we all know that will never happen.
Inb4 Tyrande starts burning down horde towns and ignites an all-out conflict.
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