The blame should not be shifted completely

I found them, although I think the Tyrande quote needs more context. It takes place while Varian and everyone else are still standing in the Warchief’s hold and comes up when you speak to her.

" Varian and I spoke at length about the price of peace before his decision here today. I am willing to allow the Horde the use of Azshara’s lumber if they abandon Ashenvale for good. Knowing the way goblins chew through resources, we will see how long that will sustain them."

“I support this peace, but I do not share the High King’s confidence. If the Horde breaks treaty to engage us again… my people will be ready.”

So obviously there’s been no time for a formal peace agreement to even be hammered out. She’s speaking of her expectations of the future.

And the fact that the provision she and Varian specifically spoke about in preparation of this day seems to never come up again makes it sounds like they didn’t even make it that far.

Although yeah, the Stormshield Guards, assuming they’re speaking with authorial intent and not a one off flub- do suggest there was some kind of peace treaty.

So I’m really suspicious about how much the intent was that there really was a peace treaty hammered out, and how much it’s just assumed that the Horde and Alliance were supposed to be at peace simply based on that cut scene and Vol’jin being a nice guy.

Since, as we’ve seen at the beginning of BfA, a lot of players were confused as to why the factions might be at odds again- mistakenly believing that they were buddy buddy after the events on the Broken Isles and Argus.

But the fact that they actually give the idea of a formal peace agreement so much focus here lends me to conclude that whatever they’re working is intended to be a lot more substantive than what happened at the end of MoP- which seemed like a way for them to avoid dismantling the Horde.

This is part of my frustration. The end of MoP was all set up to be a peaceable treaty, with the Alliance offering realistic terms that apparently went through that were simply never followed up on and almost immediately broken by the Horde before we’re ever allowed to revisit those lands… Though the Alliance does help defend Warspear from Hellscream’s submarines off Ashran’s coast.

But the next time the narrative focuses on Ashenvale, it’s because the Horde are killing Night Elves while they march through. Just because the narrative never focused on it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

And the only focus we’ve seen given to BFA’s treaty at this point is that there is one, and that Tyrande doesn’t want to sign it. If anything, we have even LESS of an idea of what it entails, besides the nebulous idea of peace.

I’m sorry, but what reason does an Alliance character or we as players have to believe that this will last longer? Because a couple characters said “For real this time!”?

That’s not good enough. I’m sorry.

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Your kinda of asking that though, even if you dont mean to.

Because ya know, the horde players play the horde story, and nothing about bfa has inspired faction pride for the horde.

When the wot ended, there were no trumpets or cheers, it was bascially omnious.

This entire expansion was basically shoving mistake in the horde players face over and over again.

What more will you have?

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If something does change that affects Horde players, what’s stopping Blizzard from simply placing Ziridormi in the affected area(s)? Then they’re not affected at all.

No, thats where your wrong canconcially we are, unless you just want us to ‘pretend it dident happen’.

People here are not concerned about gameplay mechanics, but story.

So if you believe that, you must also believe that, essentially, the Alliance players have been more or less tormented from Cata-onwards.

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Oh, THAT will fix all the shame and humiliation the storyline has put us through, not to mention whatever crawling we have to do to make Alliance players like our faction again. Sure.

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The alliance story has its flaws, but nothing in terms of hemorrhaging characters, being villan batted, and haveing mistakes shoved back in their faces time and time again.

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Ignoring the blood on the Horde’s hands will do even less. I promise you.

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Sometimes less is more, I think its long past time we just all moved past this xpacks story.

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So in other words, you DO want Horde players to suffer.

Also: you say it “will do even less,” but you mean for you. How will it benefit me?

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That’s very easy for you to say.

But for someone who’s an Alliance fan, especially if we count small characters and civilians, or even just territory, the body count is staggeringly high for the Alliance.

And that’s not what I want for the Horde, but how about the Alliance gets Ashenvale and Darkshore back? Canonically? Show Horde people helping to rebuild homes and offering supplies to help.

That wouldn’t make the Horde suffer. It would show the Horde making amends in a purely positive way, and something Horde players could even feel good about right?

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Theres nothing to count, cause we dont have numbers lol, for all you know the body count isnt that high.

Teldrassil was referred to as genocide.

When Lordaeron was attacked, The city was already wrapping up its evacuation.

The Alliance never attacked something like Brennadam, with orders to leave “no survivors”

That alone easily tilts the numbers, as far as Civilians are concerned.

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This entire expansion the Alliance has just been used as a plot device to show how evil sylvanas is and why the Horde needs to change.

We are just used a punching bag for Sylvanas and the Horde to just demonstrate how evil they have become and why they need to change. Everything the alliance players wants to see is ignored because Our lord savior Anduin apparently absolves the Horde of their sins against the Alliance.

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Tbh, thats not confirmed, you have one line in a book, and the forums ran with it. Plus it was said many got out, it said that stormwind was filled with night elves, and all the way down to goldshire. canonically thats a days march from stormwind.

Plussss believe it or not the horde did help save some night elves.

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But it was still referred to as genocide. And really only Darnassus was evacuated. All the other small hamlets and villages in Teldrassil received no relief.

And any Horde that helped Night Elves were the exception instead of the rule.

And we haven’t even mentioned the bloody path the Horde carve to get to teldrassil.

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Then put them in death camps, but anyways yes, just cause the word genocide is used, doesnt actually give numbers, cause sylvanas tried to genocide the elves, how many she killed is up in the air, we just know its alot.

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Is a characters thoughts always right?

@ poster above, im gonna need a citation on that one.

The Horde Peace Council or whatever it’s called should institute the Saurfang Medal of Honor for the brave Horde soldiers who saved a Night Elf after destroying their home and killing their family and friends.

Ideally the medal would be made from Night Elf bones.

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