Those places existed at the time, and Feralas is not sacred to the Night Elves. It is never referred to as such. Please, I need you to calm down and keep up.
hold up, the original list is right here, just an fyi;
So, just posting that. For the record. Again, please, there’s no need to get angry if you just keep up with the thread.
Getting help from other members of the Horde requires the Night Elves to be open to diplomacy?
Trading with the Humans in Dustwallow requires the Night Elves to be open to diplomacy?
Trading with the Goblin Cartels requires the Night Elves to be open to diplomacy?
Trading with anyone else except the Night Elves requires the night elves to be open to diplomacy?
Loss as in they lost the battle, but not loss as in they lost land that was rightfully theirs or loss as in some great tragedy.
It was a far, far heavier loss to the Horde because we actually lost a city and a quest/roleplay hub there. The Alliance merely didn’t get to live in it after we lost it.
Thanks for the citation though. I never read that one. Between Daelin and that incident Durotar’s forests just couldn’t take a break.
Story wise, even Sylvanas acknowledged the living saw it as their home in A Good War:
I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city.
And after the War Campaign Finale, Blizzard added Alliance NPCs to show it as a loss of a home from this angle as well:
Stormwind City Guard says: I used to live in Lordaeron, you know. Before the Third War. Always hoped to go back someday.
Stormwind City Guard says: But not anymore?
Stormwind City Guard says: No. Not after The Banshee Queen blighted what was left of the city. That dream is dead now.
Gameplay and role play hub, same as Teldrassil, it wasn’t lost, and can still be accessed right now in game. All my alts are logged off in Darnassus right now.
You’re welcome. It’s too bad the void is attacking the Emerald Dream directly now. One of these days Naralex should be able to get back to his work without corruption causing problems.
I know there are refugees of Lordaeron in Stormwind that believe Lordaeron is theirs. They also believe the Forsaken are mindless monsters that need to be wiped out like the Scourge.
… Granted the Forsaken have been doing a bad job proving them wrong. But still.
There are a lot of valid grievances the Alliance have with this expansion. I just don’t accept “We didn’t get to occupy Loraeron” as one of them. In the end we both lost a city due to Sylvanas’ machinations.
You’re welcome. It’s too bad the void is attacking the Emerald Dream directly now. One of these days Naralex should be able to get back to his work without corruption causing problems.
Yah. You’d think growing back forests should be easy for a bunch of druids. Blizzard just needs to toss in more plot contrivances to keep the Horde hungry enough to start wars I guess.
Interesting. I didn’t know she was going to do anything.
Maybe un-Blighting Lordaeron will be her first step toward showing the Forsaken she wants to help.
Hopefully the night elves get something too. It wouldn’t be very fair for the Horde to get their capital back but for the elves to be unable to heal and return to Teldrassil. Or otherwise grow a new world tree somewhere.
The other horde members and Theramore were just as destitute. The Eastern Kingdoms weren’t a realistic option because, you know, everyone there either wanted to kill orcs or was having the whole “We’re dead, Jim” issue at the time. The other sentient beings of Kalimdor were the Quillboar and Centaur, neither of whom are probably the best trade partners, both of whom wanted to exterminate the Tauren, and, as it so happens, also lived in absolute wasteland themselves!
So I guess that leaves us with the goblin cartels. Okay. So the orcs find money (somehow) to pay for the Steamwheedle (or whoever) to get a whole bunch of lumber for them. Well. Where are the goblins going to get lumber for this contract? They’re going to look around and notice that oh hey there’s a big forest just north of Durotar…
So. As it turns out? Yeah, trade with night elves - which requires diplomacy - was the only realistic option in this scenario. And the night elves were not open to diplomacy. As mentioned they were still mad that the orcs “killed” (but not really) their unkillable genocidal demigod.
One would think that if each and every tree were truly so sacred to the night elves that they would kill over them, they would be knocking at the door every damn day to try to preserve those sacred trees by working something out.
But they made themselves completely unavailable and apparently expected their neighbors to just roll over and die. Cue the shocked pikachu face when that’s not what happens at all.
Provide a source that Theramore was struggling with resources. At all. Hell, in the early days, some Theramore citizens complained because the Orcs had access to better
wood, but not that they didn’t have any of their own, AND that the Horde was getting better treatment at Rachet. And again, this is three years after Hyjal.
To any number of logging operations that several of the goblin cartels actively in the world?
No, because goblins at that point would know that there are Night Elves there.
What’s more, Thrall disagreed with the expansion into Ashenvale and the entire Warsong gulch situation. So even the warchief of the Horde considered it unnecessary, and it was simply to fuel the Horde’s expansion, not to survive.
It’s what Knami does, sprinkles so much wrong in that you’re unsure where to begin. And then gets mad when called out.
Like, “The Orcs needed the lumber or they’d DIE, and the only way in the world to get it was from Ashenvale, every other option was literally impossible”, when really it was aggressive factions trying to expand out.
First, penance wasn’t the original reason they chose Durotar. According to WC3, they also appreciated the fact that it reminded them of Draenor. Though this was soft-retconned when we actually saw Draenor and found out that most of it didn’t look like Durotar.
And second, the “penance” has been overstated. It wasn’t that Thrall intended for his people to be constantly on the edge of starvation and/or lumber deprivation; he thought the land would be difficult, but that they could make a good living there with hard work. Here are the exact quotes, from The Shattering:
No-one ever seemed so concerned for the feelings of Night Elf players, or the feelings of the Alliance players. Now that people are talking consequences, feelings are suddenly the most important thing of all.
We’ve had nonstop threads discussing that exact topic in fact; its just at this point where the Horde leadership is gutted (and ALL of the main architects of the War are now no longer a part of the faction) … what sort of CONSEQUENCES can you suggest that wont leave an ENTIRE player faction sterile for future stories (solely for a single PC race and playerbase that are in no risk of being rendered the same, despite what they lost this expansion)?
In the real world, people are generally aware when they are going into other countries. The orcs and humans had no way of knowing that they were in Night Elf territory, since they didn’t know the Night Elves existed, and the Night Elves made a point of keeping themselves hidden.
It’s kind of like not posting any signs on your land, and making sure to always stay out of sight so no one knows you are there, and then shooting at trespassers. No, it’s exactly like that.
If you did that in the real world, you’d be charged with murder. No court would defend your right to defend your land by killing people without even attempting to communicate with them first, or even let them know that it was your land.