I have a problem with all these absolutes you’re using here. You’re saying there’s “nobody” to run heroics with and I’m pretty certain this is hyperbole.
I don’t honestly see anyone making any different arguments for or against. Do you?
I mean as somebody from a progressive country, i find that amazons pay rate to employees in america is stealing. Stealing their life force and there wellbeing. Just because in the law its stealing doesnt mean its morally wrong.
Just like what amazon is doing is lawful but morally wrong. So dont talk to me about morals in stealing.
Robbin hood is a famous character but most people dont consider him morally wrong because he is stealing from the rich to give to the poor.
Morally if people found out that activision blizzard was treating there employees terribly firing staff and forcing people to work overtime, sexually abused staff and people didnt want to support them and logged into a Prt Server i wouldnt think it is morally wrong.
So yea, your morals dont apply to me.
Didn’t the game reach peak subscriber numbers after RDF was in the game?
How rich does a person have to be before it’s morally right to steal from them? How much money do you have? Relatively speaking I’m sure you’re rich compared to my poor. It’s ok for me to steal from you?
So if some one violates one of your moral precepts it’s ok to steal from them? I’m sure you’ve violated some of mine. So it’s ok for me to steal from you?
Right now Classic is Wrath Classic, not to be confused with Classic Era, or TBC Classic, which were also Classic, when they were current, at least if you follow the folder nomenclature, but that distinction isn’t particularly important.
The conversation about RDF was already settled prior to the launch of Wrath Classic, and stated as such by a developer, quite clearly…
you say you do not care about the social deficits but then would just as quickly turn around and say the game is dead if you can not find a group, RDF may speed up groups at the start but that will slow down again to hour long ques for DPS then the only real thing to keep players coming back would be guild mates or friends if they can not do the dungeons.
but you no longer needed to make any connections or join guilds while levelling because you just que get random get done move on. can not quest with these people or anything outside of RDF without paying for a transfer. so no real use knowing anyone i’m not expecting someone to ditch their guilds and friends on their current server just to quest a little with me not worth it. limiting any people you meet in their to only doing things in RDF if our levels are close and they didn’t out level me . same server does not add a paywall to socialise or just to play with people you meet in the world/dungeons .
2 things brings players back. good game mechanics or friends. even if a game sucks if your friends play it you will as well i know when i play games with friends i really do not care what the game is more then i care that we can all play together… now if you make friends in the game it self by socialising then that in itself gives players an excuse to come back. ignoring it is ignoring this player base meaning less player base in total…
That’s what retail is for, I don’t have a hard time finding a group at all as a dps
I played a lot of alts and did a lot of dungeons and my dps alts never had an hour long queue.
You may not need that but everyone I knew asked friends and their guild before joining the dungeon queue. I did more dungeon runs with friends after rdf was added because people would switch to an alt more readily when they knew they would get a full group. When you used the rdf did you join the queue solo or with friends?
No, rdf benifits dont outweigh the bad.
I would just like to point out that DPS queue in Vanilla Wrath was always 30+ minutes in my own personal experience.
sounds like you joined in on the initial rush first 3-6 months if you qued past that this would have been your experience good chance you did not untill cata ?
both i personally worked dog watch so my play times was all over the place. when i played at night/mornings i made friends with american players which i would do stuff with. then if i played during the day i would play with my RL friends. the ONLY reason i even played this game to begin with is because my friends was playing it. IF my friends did not play it i can tell you right now i would not have played this game anywhere near as much as i have. but i personally had 2 toons i would play the one with RL friends so we could all level together and one i could level solo pretty much to explore the world.
now come RDF we still did this together but it would become a case of one friend getting bored waiting " whats one dungeon" then surely but slowly the gap divided more and more. then one would be geared and raid ready one would be half gear one would be just 80 all on on different stages not playing together. all this stems from one little question. “one more dungeon won’t hurt” pushing players apart naturally. instead of waiting for your friends and guild to do stuff slowing your whole levelling down. “bro we will just meet up at 80” then the only real time you will wait for each other is raids. diminishing the whole experience in the long run
this is all personal opinion and means nothing to the point i’m trying to make. ignore the social aspect the tool helps destroy is ignoring the biggest issue the majority of anti-RDF have keeping the games social experiences intact. if this helps makes groups too great! i’m all for a tool that maintains this aspect of the game because its important to the games overall health.
I played from near the release date vanilla to BfA.
We all had mains we were raiding with. We used rdf for alts. There’d always be a couple who joined the group before we joined rdf. Not always the same alts. Yeah some would pull ahead others would level more slowly. But that just meant you’d move to a different group of alts. We were all effin around with a lot of different alts at different levels so there was always some at every level.
What I’m saying it didn’t destroy anything for me. Like I said, I played a lot more with my guild and friends after rdf was added. Maybe I was just playing with casuals and you were with more hard core players. We played a lot of hours but just having fun. Maybe you played differently. You level up a character to cap, gear up for raiding and move to the next one. Level to cap, gear to raid, and move on the next one. We leveled up one character to raid. Them mostly effed around with a lot of alts. Today we might be playing with our alts around 20, tomorrow alts around 70. We might do some raiding on an alt when it got high enough but getting it there to raid wasn’t the goal. We already had a raiding character.
I don’t see why those of us playing casually for fun should be punished because your group of friends couldn’t handle the rdf as you rushed to cap and raiding.
What he is saying is no, the rdf benefits do not outweigh the bad parts of rdf.
Rdf makes grouping for 5 man content brain dead easy (still a wait time). Thats about it for benifits. The downsides far outway that benefit.
Didn’t the game have higher sub growth before RDF was in the game? Didn’t 96% of those players know the game before RDF and did fine without it?
This, realized the , was missing. It had 2 spaces instead. Lol.
Well, clearly many of us had many different experiences with RDF. I was the most casual of players, and if you wanted to group at all as a solo player you really only had the option to queue with RDF. I didn’t raid, played EXTREMELY casually and RDF was a terrible experience for all the reasons I already told you.
Clearly if you didn’t have problems with RDF before you won’t have problems with it now. The point is, they are trying to change things for the people that DID have problems with RDF. That’s why the game is the way it is now.
I feel like it’s a lot more productive to try and figure out how to use the existing tools in the game rather than asking them to change the game.
then ima call your bluff here. i jumped on retail the other day qued for timewalker it WAS 40 minutes as dps level 50.
did you find this happened alot before RDF? or was more noticeable when RDF was released?. if the new person in the guild was behind you guys continued to leaving him behind as you said you just found a different group if you have stayed with them you could you have potential made a new friend or gave that player a sense that they are part of something bigger not just left for dead if you are too slow. which kind of sounds like what would happen in this type of scenario
i have zero interest in punishing casuals but casuals need the hard cores to function.
with out us as you put it when the casual log in their no one to play with because its now just casuals who all log in at different times who do not want to make groups because they do not have the time. if the hardcores are not making groups because they can just que then no one is making groups. game slowly starts to die.
but i have also been in your shoes i knew playing my character at 2 am on my main server was pointless majority of the playerbase was asleep so i levelled that character on a US based realm meaning at 2am my time it was 7 pm us time prime time getting groups was easy at this time on that realm which is also where i meet my us friends that i still talk to occasionally till this day. i did not expect to punish the whole community because i worked night shift and wanted everyone else to conform to my schedule . i adapted and overcome not ask for a hand out.