The Awkward (Orc-Ward?) Moment... (Orc Lore Question)

Friends, Romans, Countrymen

I’m thinking of making an orc. One born in the internment camps, and specifically interested in reclaiming his clan identity, figuring out who he is, what it means to be an orc.

But in my research I haven’t had much luck finding out which clans were actually locked away in the internment camps?

I know the Frostwolves were obviously in exile. The Warsong and Blackrock seem to have largely remained at large, even after the Second War. And I know several other clans, such as the Shadowmoon, remained behind on Outland.

What I’m having a hard time finding out though… is which clans were actually in the Alliance Internment Camps, following the Second War? I really like this idea of rediscovering identity and I don’t want to choose a clan that wasn’t actually IN the camps, know what I mean?

If anyone could help me out I’d really appreciate it :smiley:

Per the Wiki, the Bleeding Hollow, Warsong, and parts of the Dragonmaw and Blackrock clans evaded capture. It stands to reason that for your purposes you could use anything but Bleeding Hollow and Warsong.

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I just want to make sure I don’t pick one that stayed behind on Outland as well, is my main concern! Thank you though, it’s good to at least get those confirmed! :smiley:

Oh. Well then, to my knowledge only the Bonechewer clan never made it to Azeroth in any capacity to begin with, everyone else sent at least a small force over. Nobody likes the Bonechewers anyways.

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Thank you so much :smiley:

And yeah no plans for Bonechewers. I always headcanoned they’re just the cannibal branch of the Bleeding Hollow anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Honestly it’d be easy to use Bleeding Hollow too anyway, it’s not like all of them escaped and they (at least in old lore) made up a chunk of the New Horde. They did evade capture initially but I’m pretty sure that some of them, along with the other clans that followed Ner’zhul, escaped to Azeroth before their planet exploded and were promptly captured.

The Blackrocks, even though we haven’t been able to use their unique gray-green skintone, likewise could pretty reasonably have had some members captured.

The Warsong made up most of the troops that were defeated guarding the Dark Portal, so I can’t imagine all of them escaped, but it’s hard to say.

The big problem with getting real confirmation for any of it is that, largely, the New Horde orcs prioritize being an orc over being an orc of a certain clan. We only really see the Warsong and Frostwolves being traditionalists like that. It’s a bit of a shame after WoD did so much to flesh out individual tribes, but that’s how it goes sometimes, and it’s not like an individual orc can’t be more interested than average.

You even see old clan names like the Burning Blade coopted by warlocks and cultists, or the Shattered Hand being picked up as a rogue organization. I think that as long as you avoid something that would probably be impossible like the bonechewers as your character’s ancestry, you’re good.

That said, I might also avoid the Twilight’s Hammer clan or the Stormreavers, the former for obvious reasons and the latter because I’m pretty sure they left with Gul’dan and got slaughtered. The Redwalkers were reduced to almost nothing on Draenor, so they might not be likely, the Whiteclaws were destroyed prior to/during the Horde formation, the Bladewinds were routed by the draenei and their survivors slaughtered by Gul’dan. Even still, I think it’d be quite possible to justify an individual from those tribes, it just might be much more involved.

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I actually have a similar character concept, and for you specifically, I think most people have covered most of them. One I haven’t seen mentioned is Laughing Skull, they stayed on Draenor during the First War.

This is how most current Horde orcs see it. I always thought that was an interesting idea, the orcish tradition being broken and things like Thrall shamanism being an odd revival movement. Your kind of character trying to reconnect to a broken past with piecemeal information about what clan did what rituals and where is one that I’ve always enjoyed. However, I’m doing something a bit different with the idea.

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As Karithien said, it’s not as though all orcs from every clan evaded capture, and it would be easy enough (and probably helpful towards providing the conflict for your character) to have them be from one of those clans that evaded capture outright. Think about it this way; if you were born in an internment camp surrounded by other orcs, if any of those orcs happened to be from your clan as well, would you have as much of a crisis of identity when you could always ask your elders about your clan?

If the number of people to ask about your clan was far fewer, and even better, if they were your foes upon gaining freedom as many in the Bonechewer, Blackrock, etc were to the new Horde during the third war, would this not only fan the flames of the crisis of lineage?

It can be any orc clan that you came from, realistically, but the way I see it, the dilemma your character has would benefit from it being a clan that is currently mostly hostile towards the Horde. Naturally though, this isn’t a requirement, just a really neat idea to keep in mind I feel.

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I would say all clans had a chance to be in the camps. But some more than others.
Orcs were continuously captured and carted in cages into the camps throughout the time of their function.
So any orc at large would have a chance of being captured INCLUDING Bleeding Hollow who were among orcs captured.

Mistakes happen, and the Warsong clan continued to raid and attack certain places and by doing so could of resulted in a few orc being left behind and captured. Orgrim of the Blackrock Clan himself, was an oddity kept by King Terenas.

My biggest advice would be, look up EACH clan. Check their status if they are active or not, and read about their involvements in the 2nd war , what became of them and maybe look for information on their involvement with Thrall or being in camps.

Shadowmoon Clan is labeled as non-existent now due to Ner’zhul and Gul’dan. Most of them fell to darkness and became Warlocks. But that doesn’t mean they do not exist anymore as individuals, or that -former- Shadowmoon were not captured. Many Shadowmoon became something else, and in their time of aging could be seeking to revive their lost traditions, or perhaps born of parents who were Shadowmoon and seek the old ways that were lost to fel, and wish to return to the ancient shamanic mysticism an star gazing.

You could of been a young Frostwolf Orc, who didn’t head the warning of their parents and traveled too far from home, became lost and stumbled in the wrong place in the wrong time, captured as one of the rare few Frostwolves. This would be -very- rare, considering Frostwolves kept completely to themselves to the point of starvation. But small things like this are not impossible, its all about how much you think about the realistic components of what each clan went through and what happened to them.

Clans that have a very close to 0 change of showing up are clans like Whiteclaw, Thunderlord, Redwalker ect due to that most of these were little to wiped out around this time. But of course, enjoy the journey of research and immersive yourself in the lore. I highly recommend finding the books that make up the Chronicles of War megabook and then reading Lord of the Clans. All of these are very important books that make up things from the orcs, through the first war and second wars and Lord of the Clans being Thralls escape and reuniting.

I will say, none of them would be Mag’har of course, because the first Mag’har did not walk among the orc until Garrosh, and no one had seen what became of the Garadar orcs until that time (of Burning Crusade).

Lastly, I love the avenue of you having an orc seeking their heritage. This is a very realistic thing for them to do as a person who feels disconnected from their culture. It’s something I 100% relate too, and I wish more people thought this way.

Traditions and culture were warped due to their manipulation of fel, demons and warlocks. But that does not mean it has disappeared, and it does not mean it’s not a thing anymore. Many will try and go on that clan identity is not a thing anymore, or that clans in general do not exist or traditions are not cared about. This is untrue, and when you think about orcs as a people, is impossible. The orcs -lost- what was theirs. The orcs wept and felt a sense of revival once they were freed and united with the Tauren, finding their sense of culture again. They , under Thrall, found traditions again. And even though there are not separate clans like there were on Draenor, where the traditions are celebrated in isolated groups, but now they are celebrated in families where the family and individuals and seek out like minded orcs of their background and further traditions.

It’s this beautiful sense of finding their way in a new world where their identites were stripped from them with promise of something better, but now they CAN be who they were, just different.
The Warsong Clan is highly an active and functional clan still with an actual orc who represents them. The Shattered Hand are protectors of the Horde, actively recruit still and are important to the protection of their people. The Dragonmaw still thrive in the Twilight Highlands and the Frostwolf Clan still much of their traditions still live in Alterac Valley. The Blackrock Clan , while with no identifiable leader, is still considered active by name and due to the nature of the Horde are likely grasping for a revival of lost culture.

It’s a beautiful journey, and I hope you have fun. The Horde is a new world, where orcs are trying to return to a sense of cultural identity while also living amonst a melting pot of other orcs no longer a singular clan. The search for lost friends, relatives and connections and history are things that must be done now…all the while walking a modern life where clan identity looks a little different now.

Can’t wait to hear what you do (And don’t worry, this isnt an awkward question and never feel scared to seek advice and help!)

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My thought was partially based around the diverse clan identity of WoD, as compared to the MU orcs who at least SEEM to have more or less just developed a singular culture. I may’ve been headcanoning a bit, but I presumed that the lethargy the orcs experienced, mixed in with the abberation Gul’dan’s machinations turned the Horde into, was a big part of why their clan identity fell apart. After a while the “clan” just became a name, not a culture. But I do like your idea actually! I’ll give it some thought!

Thanks for the post Gotosh, I really appreciate that! :smiley: For context though I didn’t actually think it was an awkward question. I just wanted to make a silly pun. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll let you know what I decide on! I’ll give it a good old think!

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Going to preface this by saying I have no idea how canon this information still, is but there were apparently ~13 Thunderlord orcs that remained behind to guard the Dark Portal.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Malgrim_Stormhand

So it wouldn’t necessarily be likely for someone to be a survivor of that Clan, but in theory it could be possible.

It’s certainly possible yes. Anything is possible! That is what I support. With enough research and maneuvering you can justify anything with a well enough thought out story interwoven with the lore.
But what I mean by that is, the clans that considered defunct, extinct and nonexistent will require more research into what they did, what they ended up doing and what possibilities you could think up for clans that you will have to be more creative into thinking how they ended up where.

Thunderlord are a largely nonexistant by name clan now, they were demanded to stay on Draenor and were not brought to Azeroth to fight, grew hostile toward each other and became chaotic and driven to madnessed and eventually a majority of them becoming fel orcs like a lot of the Shattered Hand, Laughing Skull and ect left on Outlands.

I would assume most if not all Thunderlord are either fel orcs or barely surviving on corners of Outlands (May even be some in Garadar). BUT that is not to say some did not come over or sneak through. You could create a wonderful tale of a Thunderlord couple (or few) who didnt want to be demanded around and decided to steal generic gear and mesh in with the horde only to be some of the orc captured, to eventually later create a few children of Thunderlord ancestry.

While a RARE and very unusual circumstance, there may even be a thunderlord or two who integrated into the Frostwolf Clan (But clan integration was extremely rare if the clans themselves were not very similar and Thunderlords were like…the Warsong of the snow…)

SO over all, I just meant clans that are extinct or defunct you will just need to do good research, because when care taken in the story people not only will people eb able to flow with it better, you will be confident in your own backstory as it will feel organic , in universe but over all something you wanted and pleased with!

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Yeah, I think we’re on the same page. Just about any clan is entirely feasible, some might just require a bit more background work.

If I’m honest, I have a bit of a bias towards recommending the lesser-known clans, since you don’t really see people playing members of things like the Lightning’s Blade often! But also I play a Bleeding Hollow orc because I think they’re neat, so I’m going to echo you a bit here and say that people should pick the one they find most engaging since pretty much any of them can work.

Never change.

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What clan would you guys recommend for an orc mage? Maybe one who’s studied ogre magic a little.

You can always say your ancestors just didn’t give into the crazy blood lust the ones on oultand did, thats what I did. GLORY TO THE SHADOWMOON CLAN!

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If you’re going with a pre-Gul’dan thing, yeah. But otherwise, the study of magic is simply an extension of curiosity put to practical use in the Warcraft universe. It’s entirely possible to also discover it on your own, or to evolve it from a former job of some sort. Orc clans did have an understanding of arcane to carve runes, primarily the Shadowmoon clan, though they believed it to be another branch of shamanism.

As the years on Azeroth passed, orcs who worked with arcane, be they warlocks or shamans with duties that involved stuff like runework and enchantment, would have learned from observing the humans and elves, and their centuries of expertise with a more refined and documented use of magic, and applied what they learn to what they knew.

Arcweavers are a role in Orgrimmar among orcs. We see a few of them in the Siege of Orgrimmar, and other NPCs carry the title as well who are orcs. Arcweavers are basically just arcane mages.

Thing about mages in general though is they’re just a very versitile class roleplaying-wise. Being a mage doesn’t confine you to a single faction or following, as like I said, anyone can study magic. Those with talent turn it into a weapon.

So go nuts with whatever concept you want. Orcs have technically had mages for decades, the class definition is arbitrary.

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