No I don’t. And this is in the scope of a video game. So, if a person that plays a Ret is having a hard time - lost their job or something, I definitely have sympathy for them. But If Ret (the spec) starts getting out performed by my spec (Fury, Arms will still perform worse than Ret) but the Pally class has two other specs the player can play and my class doesn’t then no - no sympathy for that.
At any rate I think we’re done. You and me are never going to agree. I just wanted you to reflect on your approach - given that you have leveled personal criticisms on people (not just me) you don’t agree with a few times now. I want you to reflect on whether that is necessary or appropriate in the context of a video game discussion forum.
Over and out.
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Why do you keep intentionally avoid the context that paladins don’t have another dps alternative outside of playing Ret.
No Ret wants to tank or heal.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
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It’s hard to understand they don’t have another DPS spec because they don’t have one.
They’re a support class, and they do great damage with the 5 buttons out of the 22 they use.
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The woe is me attitude you have on being called out is hilarious man.
You know the saying “a hit dog will bark”?
That seems to describe you to a T
My guy, do you know what game you are playing?
There having been multiple dps specs through out the life of classic with one button rotations that did more relative dps then rets do now.
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And that is no longer the case in Wotlk.
You seem lost.
You realize affli lock only has like 4 buttons right?
That unholy dk has like 5 buttons right?
That boomkin spams two buttons right?
You realize you’re constantly going off topic and not garnishing a response?
With the immense amount of utility, Ret DPS is great. There’s a trade off that is had. If Ret lost everything that made it a Paladin, it’d be a Warrior. Show me a Ret with Improved Might-doubling down on the utility they provide.
There’s a ton of great Ret’s in this post, and they’re pushing it to the max. 6.5-7k DPS on fights. Yea it’s undead, sure it’ll change in Ulduar, and of course other classes do more. Other classes also provide way less. Ret is important and not going anywhere. Sims are one thing, taking parses from different raid groups and comparing them is irrelevant.
Talking about the top 1% of min maxing speed runners and making a point off of that when no one posting here is a part of that is a waste of time.
You realize your argument was “you do great damage for only having 5 buttons to press”
When I stayed on topic and gave your examples of three other top dps classes that have a similar easy rotation you claim I’m not staying on topic?
You just moved the goal posts cause you know you were wrong.
Any ultility Ret has is overlapped by a stronger class
Any buff Ret brings can be brought by someone else.
Why do you keep trying to dismiss this fact? Is it because you know you don’t have an argument to stand on after that?
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What would you know another well written thread with comments full of people not playing ret paladin that are just being blatantly rude because they feel like their opinion is right. The wow community is in such a terrible place.
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A similar easy rotation compared to a Ret Paladin isn’t anything I disagree with. You’re ignoring the strongest reason to bring a Ret to a raid- Utility.
They are the most versatile DPS in the game. They provide the most of any class. They do damage. They save lives. They go invincible. They save raids from walking back. They bring replenishment. All the Hands. All the buffs.
Just because a Ret won’t stop their rotation to use utility doesn’t mean it isn’t available to them.
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I’m not ignoring. I’m disagreeing with your assertion that rets have unique utility that can only be brought by them which justifies their low numbers.
You keep ignoring that.
Any raid ultility is brought by paladin in general and not specific to Ret. There are a handful of better dps specs that bring the same raid ultility that Ret does. Please understand this.
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I also play boomkin outside of playing ret and you are also maintaining dots, following a set opening rotation, getting treants down before lust, spamming the right two buttons, trying to snapshot dots + Starfall when possible. Why you’re even talking about the amount of buttons any class is using to play the game is irrelevant and you’re bringing nothing of use to OPs conversation. No reason to be rude and try to derail the thread my guy.
My guy, I didn’t hinge my argument that the number of buttons a class has to press for their rotation is justification for their lower numbers.
I used the same logic the person I replied to which showed their reasons as bad.
Boomkins maintain one dot which is the moonbeam does that gets refreshed after you cast starfire.
Outside of your opener you on spam two buttons.
Boomkin is one of the least engaging specs in wrath. But I’m not using them against them and believe they should have low numbers because of it. Talk to the other guy. He seems to think boomkin should be in the dirt with rets.
A player with this mindset made a poor choice at class selection, choosing the most versatile class along with Druid only to completely ignore that asset.
Ret isn’t in the dirt.
I said a Paladin has 22 unique buttons they can press.
That is utility. It comes at a cost. The cost is DPS. Benefit outweighs cost.
So if that’s the case blizzard should nerf boomkin and feral to Ret levels because they have other options?
That makes zero sense.
Ret was good in original wrath. It was a viable dps option throughout the entirety of the expansion. The only reason it isn’t right now is because blizzard is the king of having no forsight and no plan on dealing with the fallout of their unintended consequences.
Making specs suffer under the cumulative nerfs made 13 years ago because you choose to go with the path of least resistance on putting everyone on last patch balance is lazy dev work.
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“Moonbeam” is not the DOT a moonboy maintains, it is used if we have to move. Lol
Yeah you’re not wrong here. Most Prots are specced into Imp Might. You only need two paladins for kings/might, the Prot self buffs themselves sanct. You can literally 1 heal Naxx 25 with a Hpally and you don’t bring a ret at all because of their subpar DPS. You have an arcane mage, a boomkin, an assa rogue, and a spriest and all ret utility is covered and you just don’t bring one it’s an easy call. Would be nice to see some buffs so this isn’t the case.
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If Druids were lobbying to have their DPS raised to competitive levels I would be making the same argument against them. I don’t know how you managed to build this strawman but it’s a misunderstanding on your part.