The Argent Crusade in BFA

(For all intents of purposes, I think it’s the safest to say that the Paladin PC is an Alliance character. The lore of the artifacts, and with the fact that the entire organization is called the Silver Hand, which is the Alliance’s main Paladin Order, it just makes the most sense that the Paladin PC was a human or dwarf, most likely the former. To add to this argument, while not entirely impossible, it would be a little odd to have Liadrin, for example, taking orders from her subordinate, as she is the Matriarch of the Blood Knights. The same could be said for the Boros and the Hand of Argus, and Aponi and the Sunwalkers. And before the return of Turalyon, the Silver Hand had no such member remaining, as Tirion had just passed away.)

As Legion began, Highlord Tirion Fordring died and the Paladin PC was appointed as the next Highlord of the Argent Crusade. However, the Argent Crusade then merged into, or “reformed”, the Silver Hand, alongside the Blood Knights, Hand of Argus, and Sunwalkers, and so the Paladin PC was then appointed as the Highlord of the Silver Hand, instead.

As Legion ended and we moved onto BFA, the Blood Knights and Sunwalkers left the Silver Hand, as the Silver Hand was always an Alliance organization. I’m not sure if the Hand of Argus left the Silver Hand or not, nor am I sure if the Argent Crusade did.

While the Hand of Argus didn’t have any prior history with the Silver Hand, they are both Alliance Paladin Orders, so I see no reason that they would feel the need to distance themselves, especially with how intermingled Draenei and Humans have become, which is even further supported by the return of Turalyon, and his position amongst both races.

But with the Argent Crusade, it’s a different story. The Argent Crusade does have a long history with the Silver Hand. In fact, the Argent Crusade was originally founded through the union between the Argent Dawn and the Silver Hand. As far as the Argent Dawn goes, their membership was always limited, as the Argent Dawn was always a pretty small faction. The Silver Hand, on the other… hand… made up a much bigger chunk within the Argent Crusade. In fact, Tirion himself was a member of the Silver Hand, not the Argent Dawn.

When WotLK ended, Tirion, elected to keep the Argent Crusade neutral, similary to how the Argent Dawn was, and would have the organization focus their efforts on wiping out the Scourge in the Eastern and Western Plaguelands. This worked out fine, for the most part, and any members of the Silver Hand that wished to return to the Alliance were freely able to, as well as those that wished to remain with the Argent Crusade could do so as well.

However, with Tirion’s death, the Argent Crusade merging into the Silver Hand, and the Paladin PC being appointed as the Highlord of both organizations, we’re faced with a political crisis.

Since the Legion’s defeat, we have seen the Silver Hand actively supporting the Alliance. Turalyon was leading them in the Battle for Stromgarde, for example. With the Silver Hand actively supporting the Alliance, this turns the entire organization that remains hostile towards the Horde.

It’s also unclear if the Paladin PC is still the Highlord of the Silver Hand. As I’ve gone through my BFA quests, I have been referred to as “Highlord”, at least once. I’m not sure if it happened any other time prior, but just the other day I was referred to as “Highlord” by the 7th Legion Quartermaster, when I turned in my Bonus Rep Cache.

It is still possible that the Paladin PC relinquished the title of Highlord after the end of Legion, and the 7th Legion Quartermaster could have just been being honorific, but I haven’t seen really any definitive indication either way. If the Paladin PC did, however, I feel that Turalyon would ultimately be the Silver Hand’s next choice to become Highlord, but again, I’ve heard no mention of this.

Anyways, since the Paladin PC was also the Highlord of the Argent Crusade, when the organization merged into the Silver Hand, is it safe to say that the Argent Crusade is now actively a member of the Alliance? I see no reason that the Paladin PC would choose to pull the Argent Crusade out of the Silver Hand, especially given that it is most likely the Paladin PC was a member of the Silver Hand. And furthermore, the Paladin PC is currently not a neutral character like Tirion was, either. The PCs were pretty neutral in Legion, but we’ve been set as Alliance and Horde, respectively, in BFA.

If that was going to come up it probably would have when Sylvanas lost her mind. I’d say the fate of the organization is going to be ignored because they’re just a more focused purpose 7th Legion.

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Legion’s intro quests kinda showed that Argent Crusade got hit very hard as they were the first to charge into Broken Isles along with Tirion and got themselves slaughtered. They probably still exists but the war does not seem to have reached the lands they hold.

I also don’t think they are Alliance aligned. If Blood Knights and Sunwalkers can return to their factions then there’s no reason to assume Highlord has any say on what their members do. Argent Crusade has members from the both factions and was always neutral from the start, so there’s no reason for them to be involved in the war as long as war doesn’t reach the lands they hold.

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I’m playing devil’s advocate here…

While yeah, the Argent Crusade is allowed to do as it wishes, my counterargument would be that the Tirion had appointed the Paladin PC to become the next Highlord of the Argent Crusade. And with the Highlord of the Argent Crusade being an active member of the Silver Hand, it’s reasonable to say that the rest of the Argent Crusade would be as well.

An example I could draw would be the Council of Three Hammers and the Dark Irons. Moira joined the Council of Three Hammers, an Alliance organization, and due to her being the leader of the Dark Irons, a neutral faction, she ended up pulling them into the Alliance with her.

I just can’t find an argument as to why the Paladin PC would choose to pull the Argent Crusade out of the Silver Hand, especially at a time like BFA, where, from the Alliance’s perspective, the Horde is on a rampage, just committed a genocide, and intends to dominate the world.

The Argent Crusade isn’t part of the Silver Hand as an Alliance organization. The Silver Hand in Legion was a conglomeration of every Paladin order, and that’s not normally how it operates. The Argent Crusade is no more a part of the Silver Hand in the Alliance than the Blood Knights, Sunwalkers, or even Vindicators are, and clearly the Highlord of the united effort has no say in what the individual orders ended up doing.

Moreover, it’s tenuous as to the Silver Hand even fighting for the Alliance. Turalyon just throws down some banners, while all of the Paladins under him are just named generic “Alliance Paladin” without even wearing tabards. Suggesting the Argent Crusade is part of the Alliance on this basis is reaching, to say the least.

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Probably the only point in this conflict where the crusade would have stepped in is in the aftermath of the battle of Lordearon. The crusade claims the lands of the plaguelands, but the Horde have owned Andorhal since Cata. If any fighting occurred there, and chances are there probably was to get the Horde out of EK, then that would have been the time to step up and say/do something.

I have interpreted that essentially the Argent Crusade got crushed during the battle of the Broken Shore. The organization died with Tirion Fordring.

While organizations like the Argent Dawn and the Brotherhood of the Light still have NPCs within the game, I think this is largely due to Blizzard not updating NPCs to match up with the current storylines. I believe the same can be said for the Argent Crusade.

I think it’s safe to assume that after Legion, each of the respective Paladin orders have gone back to their factions - and the only place where they respect the truce is when they’re all present at Light’s Hope Chapel.

Silver Hand continues to be Human & Dwarf
Hand of Argus is Draenei

Sunwalkers for the Tauren
Blood Knights for the Blood Elves

All this confusion could have been prevented if Blizzard hadn’t arbitrarily resurrected the moniker Silver Hand for Legion - it would have been better to continue going as the Argent Crusade and then have the order break apart at the beginning of BFA, with the Humans and Dwarves reforming the Silver Hand.

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I dispute the very premise of this thread. The idea that an individual PC should be considered exclusive to a given faction. Not only is it not supported in lore, there is more than one way to be any given class (except maybe Death Knights and Demon Hunters. They’re pretty much all edgy bastards.)

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The Human Paladin desire to elusively own the concept of righteousness is pretty much imperative #1 to what we might term the ‘canon’ Human Paladin ideology. No other sin from Blizzard was as great as giving Paladins to red team, sullying the name.

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The Argent Crusade was demolished on the broken shore yes there were survivors however the vast majority of them died. As an institution the argent crusade is shattered it’s remnants joined the other orders most likely.

That’s an overly simplistic characterization.

What many of us bemoan is the tossing out of established lore and sacrificing consistent storytelling for gameplay concerns - all of which were done in TBC for the sake of providing fodder for Raiders.

This isn’t a “Human Paladin” concern as many on this forum like to simplemindedly explain away, this should be a concern for anyone that wants the writers to take the story seriously and to stop killing off important RPG elements just to feed the raiding machine.

Raiding and gameplay balance steamrolled over the story in TBC. It’s the reason Alliance got Shamans and Horde got Paladins. It’s also the reason Illidan and Kael’thas were inexplicably turned into super ebil guyz.

It’s a bit late now, Blizzard has already jumped the shark, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t push back against that kinda garbage.

The first post has “Argent Crusade” written 20 times.

I think it is safest to not speculate on it and accept the ambiguity. It is, among many things, decidedly unclear.

Source? They seem like a rather sizeable faction, given their membership and holdings.

It actually seemed like the opposite way around. Most of the Silver Hand members were dead at the time of the merger.

Well what they say in the quest is, ‘The Order of the Silver Hand is reborn’. If anything, it is a new organization sharing the same name, but including the various sub-groups that since joined.

Personally, I think the new Silver Hand is probably operationally divided once more. With Maxwell Tyrosus in charge of the once again neutral Argent Dawn. And the various respective groups, as well as a more bolstered and separate Silver Hand, doign their own thing.

To me, it is a matter of the various groups having conflicting desires. Which would lead to the general dissolution of the new Hand.