Was a military stronghold invading the Barrens and threatening to invade Mulgore and the Tauren. No civilians were killed during bombing, only military personal.
Was never brought up at all by the Alliance. Responsible parties were executed by Warchief Garrosh.
When did Tyrande forgive the Horde? I must have missed that.
Lordaeron unleashed Arthas on the world. Lordaeron is under Horde control, as itâs citizens are the Forsaken.
At the same time, Nerâzhul was the progenitor of âThe Lich Kingâ and Arthas wouldnât have become the Lich King if Nerâzhul hadnât been involved. Nerâzhul, of course, is an Orc.
Not only was this long before the Alliance existed, but he betrayed the Night Elves. They didnât support his behavior at all (in fact they put him in jail for 10,000 years). It does help that he ended up saving the world, and had been doing things to that end the entire time.
Technically inaccurate. There were no High Elves during the War of the Ancients, not as we have them now. During the War of the Ancients they were all Night Elves, but some were Highborne or Quelâdorei (âChildren of Noble Birthâ). They were not separate races.
That said, most of the Highborne would eventually become Satyr and Naga, and only a small few of them sided with the rest of their people to push back the Legion and avoided becoming a Satyr or Naga (or dead). Those Highborne would stay with the Night Elves for some time before leaving for the Eastern Kingdoms, where they evolved into High Elves as we know them today.
The Night Elves as we know them had nothing to do with summoning the Legion, and they didnât have any power to stop Azshara per se. The people most closely related to the Highborne of the past are: High Elves (Horde) and Nightborne (Horde).
I⊠what? No, this is wrong.
The Eredar were a peaceful magic wielding race that lived on Argus 25,000 years ago. Sargeras showed up and corrupted their race, with only a handful refusing his âgiftsâ and fleeing into the cosmos rebranded as the âDraeneiâ (âExiled Onesâ).
The Eredar/Draenei had no part in unleashing the Burning Legion. The Burning Legion was already well in progress and screwing up the universe before it stumbled upon their world. They were corrupted by it, they didnât create it.
Obviously a joke but lore-wise hogger is dead because we put him in jail and then killed him later.
Still doesnât make it undone.
Tyrande got her revenge in 8.1 according to devs and the night elves in front of orgrimmar have forgiven the horde since they are fighting alongside them.
Thatâs true. The school is all ashes now just like Taurajo. Nothing you can do about it, the commander responsible was killed by Garrosh, only thing you can do is move on and not get stuck in the past throwing a hissy fit about it.
Tyande will be back, sheâs probably the next when to go off the deep end. As for those Night Elves at Orgrimmar, maybe many of them realized that that Sylvanas herself was the reason to blame what happened and arenât consumed by blind, murderous bloodlust like Tyrande and the Black Moon Army.
All the old leaders and heroes are getting killed off to make room for new stories and new heroes, with that said Tyrande will be back, she will lead her people to something that hasnât been unveiled yet, I feel we will start to see supporting characters become primary characters/leaders/heroes in wow. Just my humble opinion. BTW they did warn us this was going to happen.
you canât compare a school full of children with a military camp
Sylvanas didnât single handedly make a bloody rush from orgrimmar to teldrassil, murdering civilians on her way there and finishing it with a genocide.
She had a horde behind her.
As for Tyrande, I really hope they make her evil. If getting justice for your people automatically means being evil, then I have no problem with being evil.
Of course not, why would the Alliance willingly help the Horde by destroying that nightmare of a city
Anyway in all seriousness seriously no one âwonâ, except maybe Sylvanas and her omega superpowers
This conversation is a big mess.
my chili fries wont be able to fix it!
Lordaeron at the time was under Alliance control⊠and if you want to talk present time, then itâs still under Alliance control as the Horde have abandoned it after the siege of Lordaeron and the Alliance have taken the Lordaeron territory back regardless if itâs capital is now full of plague.
Nerâzhul was a puppet of the Burning Legion, and the Lich King (and Scourge) were created by the Burning Legion (See Draenei above)
The arguments you make about Illidan, about how he âbetrayedâ the Night Elves, is the same argument that can be made about any of the evil people within the Horde, as they too âbetrayedâ the Horde, âbetrayedâ their people, and/or âbetrayedâ what it means to be Warchief or what the Horde stands for. So unless you want to invalidate every evil Horde figure, Illidan counts since he was born and raised within the same ranks as Tyrande and Malfurion.
Furthermore, your argument that Illidan was doing things to save the world the entire time, while ignoring the fact that he genocided and slaughtered and enslaved countless innocents and other attrocities during his reign in the outlands (as clearly stated in lore within the novels)⊠the same could apply to Garrosh for example, he was doing what he believed would save the Horde, trying to bring it back to itâs past glory days and restore old traditions as the Horde during his reign was weak and on the verge of collapse and Alliance infiltration/takeover.
Furthermore, your argument that the Night Elves as we know them had nothing to do with summoning the Legion or Queen Azsharaâs actions⊠is the same as if you said, the Horde as we know today, had nothing to do with any of what Garrosh didâŠ
The fact that the Elves such as Tyrande and Malfurion who would break off and form the âNight Elvesâ stood by and didnât do more or act sooner to try to stop Queen Azsharaâs actions is the same exact thing as how the Horde who broke off didnât do something sooner or do more to stop Garroshâs actions. So if the Night Elves are excluded from Queen Azsharaâs actions, then the Horde would have to be excluded from Garroshâs Actions as well.
It isnât a secret, but a verified and known fact that Velen did not make a stand against Sargeras. It took him 25,000 years to finally realize he needed to stop running and make a stand. Itâs as Illidan said⊠He stood by as he watched his brothers (Kilâjaden and Archimonde) and his people become corrupted and didnât do anything about it except runaway, so he was partly to blame for not making a stand, and later Velen acknowledged these facts that Illidan said though out the final patch.
Exactly, the Alliance choose to spare Hoggerâs life and just imprison them. While a group of horde who braved and carved a path through Stormwind to do the stockades, went in and killed Hogger.
The Alliance of Lordaeron collapsed following the Third War. The current Alliance is a new Alliance forged by Stormwind later on. Similar name, different entity.
The territory is irrelevant, because blame lies with people, not places. If weâre talking about whoâs to blame for Arthas, the blame lies in the society he comes from. Which was Lordaeron. Who are now the Forsaken.
The point was that both beings were corrupted and warped from their own original perspectives. If Arthas can be laid at someoneâs feet (the Forsaken), then Nerâzhul can be laid at someoneâs feet too (the Orcs). Itâs fruitless to try and blame the Alliance for Arthas, because the only kingdom that actually created him was Lordaeron.
Thereâs a difference, though. The Horde gets blamed for Garrosh, but the Night Elves (not the Alliance, since they didnât even exist) donât? Participation.
The Night Elves actively sought to stop Illidan the moment he did something wrong like that. The Horde kept following Garrosh, obeying his orders, engaging in a criminal war, right up until moments before the final hour.
Night Elves: Tried to stop him the whole time.
Horde: Went along with it 90% of the way and only realized the problem in the end.
It could, but I wouldnât. It doesnât follow as well. Illidan was trying to stop a cosmic destructive entity, to save everyone, even if it meant losing people first. Garrosh didnât care if the whole world burned so long as just the Horde was secure.
They might both be acting psychotic and amoral, but one has an objectively good reason and the other is just someone who canât let the past stay in the past.
Thatâs literally what defines them as being separate races. The magic warped and altered their body. The Nightborne literally subsist on magic instead of just food. They could eat just magic.
Whether you feel that magic changing your very body into an entirely different thing makes you a different species or not is irrelevant. Theyâre treated as different species, they behave as different species, and pretty much everyone regards them as different species.
There is no moment in time in which all of those Elves lived at the same time as the same âbreedâ.
Sylvanas, Vareesa, and Alleria, were all born well after the sundering. They were born as modern High Elves (the short pale kind). Sylvanas, Vareesa, and Alleria, were never the same species as Azshara and Thalyssra.
Azshara was a Highborne (the tall purple kind), as was Thalyssra of course. Azshara became a Naga, and Thalyssra became warped by the Nightwell and her people became the Nightborne (a new different species warped and altered by powerful magic).
There arenât any reliable reports of any High, Blood, or Void Elves who are that old. High Elves and Blood Elves lifespans are measured in the thousands of years, but theyâre not immortal per se.
The Night Elves had immortality from their tree (which was a gift to just the Night Elves), the Nightborne had their Nightwell which gave them immortality (but it used the Eye of Amanâthul, which controlled time, so this makes some sense), and the High Elves had âsomething akin to immortalityâ from their Sunwell (i.e. thousands of years of life compared to humans short lives).
The reason I said the Night Elves as we know them had nothing to do with the summoning is because they literally didnât. I donât know if you know the whole story here.
Azshara
Highborne
Night Elves
Thatâs the power structure of the ancient Night Elf society. Azshara, of course, was queen. The Highborne were the nobility, the âpurestâ of them (Azsharaâs favored). The Night Elves were literally everyone else.
Azshara and her Highborne controlled the Well of Eternity and access to it. Night Elves were not allowed to play with it, nor experiment on it, unless expressly given permission. Azshara and her Highborne, however, had free access to it.
Azshara didnât like the Night Elves, as she felt they were imperfect and impure. They werenât like her Highborne, who she viewed as perfect. When she felt the Legion call, she planned to use the Legion to wipe out the Night Elves so she could remake the world. She wanted to exterminate the lesser people of her society so that only her and the Highborne would remain, able to flourish and spread their perfection across the world.
Now, obviously, thatâs not what ended up happening. The reason, as we all should know, is that some Night Elves discovered what she was doing and mounted a rebellion. Most Night Elves, at first, had no idea that Azshara had done this. They shouted things like âRun Azshara!â and âFOR AZSHARA!â while attempting to defend her and the Highborne in their palace (which was locked up). Azshara laughed at this, at their pathetic little lives defending the very thing that was killing them.
The Night Elves had no idea what Azshara was doing. It wasnât until they found out that they made efforts to stop her. Which makes sense, really. You donât go hand-slapping people for things you donât know theyâre doing because you donât think they need hand-slapping.
Itâs important to understand, by the way, that Tyrande and Malfurion didnât âbreak off and form the Night Elvesâ. The whole society was Night Elves. The survivors were basically all Night Elves with a very small number of Highborne who managed to survive. The Highborne eventually left the Night Elves behind.
They didnât âbreak offâ of anything. They were always the Night Elves. It was the Highborne who tried to âbreak offâ and they ended up dead (many), damned (Naga, Satyr a bit later on), or desperate (the few surviving Highborne who ended up fleeing Kalimdor) as a result.
The Horde knew what Garrosh was doing, they just didnât try and stop him. The Night Elves didnât know what Azshara was doing until it was too late. Itâs not like she had a big sign up âWelcome Burning Legionâ that everyone could see.
The only people who would have known and could have tried to stop her were the Highborne, who seemed OK with erasing the Night Elves and remaking the world in their own image. (These are the people who become the High Elves over the next 10,000 years)
Again, the Night Elves 10,000 years ago had no idea what she was doing until it was too late. The Horde canât say it didnât know that Garrosh was waging a brutal war âuntil it was too lateâ.
Thatâs not relevant to the question of whether the Draenei unleashed the Legion.
The Draenei didnât create the Legion. In fact, a large number of Draenei joined a holy army just to fight the Legion while Velen took everyone else and fled to safety. Velen may feel bad about not making a stand at any point, but with how the story went itâs clear that it wouldnât have mattered.
Since the statement was
I refuted that by pointing out that they didnât create the Legion, they simply fled from it. You havenât provided any argument that they unleashed the Legion except to say that they didnât die before it to slow it down a little.
Given the nature of how the Legion ended up being defeated, the Draenei could not have done it on their own. (The Army of Light hadnât been able to do it all that time, either).
Thereâs no use arguing about whether or not the Horde did it or the Alliance. Both have quests to kill Hogger.
At best we could probably surmise that the Alliance is the canonical version, if only because itâs entirely unlikely that a group of Horde heroâs would actually end up in there. (Iâm not aware of any quests that lead the Horde to the Stockades, except that the Warden directly outside will offer just this one quest).
Was Nerâzhul truly the first Lich King? The continent of Northrend, Terenasâ final words to Tirion, all make it sound like the Lich King is something of a force of nature and an always has been, always must be type of thing.
The Horde lose leaders like candy and get their cities sacked, and the war campaign was entirely succesful for the Alliance by countering every move the Horde made. They lose a lot of characters and troops everytime they lose.
I think there is some bias but itâs not THAT bad. The Night Elves story isnât finished, Tyrande and the other Night Elves will do more yet in the stories to come.
Donât worry. Maybe iâm insane to think Blizzard has an actual plot line planned for Tyrande.
But I donât think theyâd put the unique dialog in saying Tyrande has stopped talking to Anduin unless theyâre got something planned.
That hasnât been decided just yet. Anduin made it clear that Tyrande is still fighting and he believes she might become consumed with vengeance. So just because everyone was all hugs and kisses in that cinematic doesnât mean everyone is on board with the peace train just yet. Genn was clearly not happy with the situation He made it clear he didnât give a damn about helping the Horde and would have been fine if they killed one another off, he was only there because he wanted to kill Sylvanas and he was pissed that we failed at that.
Someone didnât play WC3
It has been decided pretty much. Something that made me sick too is seeing night elf soldiers standing right next to these monsters right in front of orgrimmar.
And Anduin is 100% convinced of this peace now
No they didnât, the horde attacked a strategic point on a war map. Sylvanas wanted to crush the spirit/hope of the Alliance. Genocide was not the goal nor was that achieved. Genocide means to wipe out an entire race, which didnât happen.
Why do you comment when you have no idea about the topic? I never understand such people.
Even Blizzard stated that sylvanas has commited Genocide. Are you saying that Blizzard is wrong about their own story?
The irony, I havenât seen them make that statement. The only people Iâve seen make that claim are those who donât understand what the word means.
Genocide means to wipe out an entire species/race. Thatâs not what happened.
What if I prove you wrong and Blizzard said that she did commit genocide. Will you take it back then?