In the "Lost Honor" cinematic, we open up on the Stormwind military clustered at the docks. Greymane informs Anduin that they are the last of the soldiers, and soon they will be drafting farmers.
This indicates that the Alliance military, or at least the Stormwind based elements, are if not spent, then at least badly over extended. Anduin has, in an effort to do what he thought right, marched his forces into fight after fight.
This has played out exactly like Sylvanas stated it would in BtS. The Horde would be able to recoup itself from the dramatic losses in the campaign against the Legion faster than the Alliance, and so, since she saw war as inevitable, it was advantageous to start one sooner rather than later.
Honestly, we knew Saurfang would, eventually, do something other than walk back to the Horde, not for any in world reason, but in the context of the narrative, there would be little reason for his moral crisis otherwise.
What I did not expect was for the Alliance to already be on, if not its last legs, then as worn down as they are. The Night Elves are in tatters, the humans are nearly spent. Gnomes and dwarves typically provide support to the other races and never seem to have very large forces of their own to begin with. The Gilneans were never massive in number, the Pandarens are a spattering of individuals, and the Allied races tend to be specialists and not the core of an army.
Even if Sylvanas is stopped, removed, ascends, whatever... the Alliance isn't going to launch any serious assaults on Horde territory. Not that the Horde isn't hurting too, I'm certain it is, but we have no idea how badly- all we know for certain is that the Alliance has nothing left to give.
Maybe Anduin shouldn't have tried to zerg rush Lordaeron without plans for the Blight.
11/02/2018 01:32 PMPosted by LenaMaybe Anduin shouldn't have tried to zerg rush Lordaeron without plans for the Blight.
EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD.
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Perhaps that's all true, but I think the authorial intent is that the Kul'tiran navy is an unprecedented juggernaut of unspeakable strength that controls the ultimate fate of all of Azeroth at this point, such that Kul'tiras and Zandalari really are proxies for the entire war. Even if the war changes direction in 8.2, the loss of the Zandalari fleet is meant to be seen as close to a war-ending blow at this moment in time.
Period. He should have gone after something that would have meant anything if the Horde had lost it.11/02/2018 01:32 PMPosted by LenaMaybe Anduin shouldn't have tried to zerg rush Lordaeron
Oh no, they lost a literal cesspit that couldn't support any Horde race besides the forsaken anyway.
11/02/2018 01:36 PMPosted by GalkaPerhaps that's all true, but I think the authorial intent is that the Kul'tiran navy is an unprecedented juggernaut of unspeakable strength that controls the ultimate fate of all of Azeroth at this point, such that Kul'tiras and Zandalari really are proxies for the entire war. Even if the war changes direction in 8.2, the loss of the Zandalari fleet is meant to be seen as close to a war-ending blow at this moment in time.
hence both sides stating that the Alliance is poised to win the war in a matter of weeks at the close of the Battle for Dazar'alor
And so what? The Horde is clearly losing by the end of 8.1 raid. Also when this happens is quite confusing, because the war table tells an entirely different story.
11/02/2018 01:37 PMPosted by JerolanPeriod. He should have gone after something that would have meant anything if the Horde had lost it.11/02/2018 01:32 PMPosted by LenaMaybe Anduin shouldn't have tried to zerg rush Lordaeron
Oh no, they lost a literal cesspit that couldn't support any Horde race besides the forsaken anyway.
Yeah, it's almost like they could have done a really interesting psychological story arc about the humans of Stormwind being unable to get over the 'loss' of Lordaeron, such that they're willing to make a bad military decision chasing that festering wound, and Sylvanas' actions are just justification for something they were chomping at the bits to do for years anyway.
That would be too complex, apparently.
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Tough call to make, honestly. The Alliance could indeed be losing, or it could be that Anduin is simply enacting something similar to the draft. In any case, even if the Alliance is winning, it'd still make sense to recruit as many soldiers as possible to ensure that you keep winning.
i wouldn't say that. after the 8.1 raid both factions get reports of alliance winning on every single front and that they are close to victory.
And then they could have Tyrande making an actual point in the coming conflict during 8.1, wherein she chides Anduin and the human leadership for being obsessed with symbolic victories over actual ones.11/02/2018 01:42 PMPosted by GalkaYeah, it's almost like they could have done a really interesting psychological story arc about the humans of Stormwind being unable to get over the 'loss' of Lordaeron, such that they're willing to make a bad military decision chasing that festering wound, and Sylvanas' actions are just justification for something they were chomping at the bits to do for years anyway.
That would be too complex, apparently.
Lena would probably be there fanning herself. Me too.
The take-away I got from everything so far is that everyone is losing.
I really hope the factions just dissolve/trim-off-the-fat after this expansion is over. I'm tired of Alliance vs. Horde. I'd much rather go to proxy conflicts.
I really hope the factions just dissolve/trim-off-the-fat after this expansion is over. I'm tired of Alliance vs. Horde. I'd much rather go to proxy conflicts.
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11/02/2018 01:47 PMPosted by JerolanAnd then they could have Tyrande making an actual point in the coming conflict during 8.1, wherein she chides Anduin and the human leadership for being obsessed with symbolic victories over actual ones.11/02/2018 01:42 PMPosted by GalkaYeah, it's almost like they could have done a really interesting psychological story arc about the humans of Stormwind being unable to get over the 'loss' of Lordaeron, such that they're willing to make a bad military decision chasing that festering wound, and Sylvanas' actions are just justification for something they were chomping at the bits to do for years anyway.
That would be too complex, apparently.
Lena would probably be there fanning herself. Me too.
Damn, this little hypothetical is already forming into a more nuanced and complex weaving story than what was given.
Writing is hard. I think I need a drink after all that hard thinkin' I did there.11/02/2018 01:49 PMPosted by GalkaDamn, this little hypothetical is already forming into a more nuanced and complex weaving story than what was given.
Isn't how that's always been though?
The Horde chews through the Alliance forces, but the Alliance has the numbers to take the loss and keep on rolling.
The Horde lose one or two battles and completely folds because it just doesn't have the numbers to replace what it lost. Hence the Horde's insane obsession with superweapons and first strikes because the Horde leadership know that they can't win a war of attrition.
The Horde chews through the Alliance forces, but the Alliance has the numbers to take the loss and keep on rolling.
The Horde lose one or two battles and completely folds because it just doesn't have the numbers to replace what it lost. Hence the Horde's insane obsession with superweapons and first strikes because the Horde leadership know that they can't win a war of attrition.
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Look, both sides have been taking loses since Wrath. Hell, Genn's comment about how they have to conscript farmers seems odd. We have been concripting them since Wrath! Just look at Valiance keep!
11/02/2018 01:33 PMPosted by Koroun11/02/2018 01:32 PMPosted by LenaMaybe Anduin shouldn't have tried to zerg rush Lordaeron without plans for the Blight.
EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD.
How is Anduin losing a massive number of soldiers to his stupidity in Lordaeron not relevant to this thread.
Then we get narrative whiplash as we're suddenly weeks from total victory after we crush Zuldazar.
It's almost like the various writing teams aren't communicating at all.
It's almost like the various writing teams aren't communicating at all.
11/02/2018 03:37 PMPosted by TulekThen we get narrative whiplash as we're suddenly weeks from total victory after we crush Zuldazar.
It's almost like the various writing teams aren't communicating at all.
I mean, we've been told Lordaeron was an Alliance loss, and a Horde loss. So, who even knows what's going on anymore?
Are you sure about that?
The dialogue from both factions in 8.1 indicate the Alliance in dominating the war. Genn's comments could just mean mobilization of the entire Alliance military as they've been simultaneously conquering central Kalimdor and reestablishing Stromgarde/Lordaeron/Gilneas.
The dialogue from both factions in 8.1 indicate the Alliance in dominating the war. Genn's comments could just mean mobilization of the entire Alliance military as they've been simultaneously conquering central Kalimdor and reestablishing Stromgarde/Lordaeron/Gilneas.