Testing Same-Faction Battlegrounds in Burning Crusade Classic

It also leaves open the possibility for the Alliance players to queue against the multitude of Horde PuGs it could have matched up with that got into games while the Alliance players were against the Horde premade. You can’t exclude the one without excluding the other. They will all requeue, albeit later than the premade due to time in a game, which is why I said premades overrepresent their proportion of the group population. The occurrences that happen that aren’t your desired occurrence are still happening, and need to be considered as well. Furthermore, Horde CAN face the theoretical same PuG (or PuG slot, more specifically), over and over again, the same way they can face the same premade.

What you’re saying isn’t mathematically possible, especially when you look at in in practice, as described below:

Let us suppose every Horde team has a greater chance of facing an Alliance Premade than an Alliance PuG at a greater rate than the rate at which Alliance face Horde Premades vs. PuGs.

Assume Alliance premades finish games no faster than Horde premades due to equal skill, and Alliance doesn’t have a greater population of premades than Horde.

Say 20% of all Alliance player games are against premades. And 30% of all Horde player games are against premades.

Take 100 matches from each side. Alliance played against 80 PuGs and 20 premades, whereas in these same 100 games Horde played against 70 PuGs and 30 premades.

Somehow, even though there is the same proportion of equally skilled premades on each side, 10 more Alliance premades got games, while 10 Alliance PuGs didn’t get to participate. Where did they go? Are they stuck in queue? I thought Alliance queues were near instant. You can say that this is just one sample, but repeat this 100 times.

Alliance faces 8,000 PuGs and 2,000 premades while Horde faces 7,000 PuGs and 3,000 premades.

Either way, assuming your condition is true (that Horde will have a greater percentage of overall games against premades), Alliance premades are getting to play more than Alliance PuGs (when compared to Horde’s premade vs PuG group ratio), even though they aren’t finishing games faster than Horde premades, and aren’t a greater proportion of the population than Horde premades. Somehow, in this time, 1,000 Alliance PuG groups didn’t get to play. Where are they? The only possible explanation that would work in favor of what you’re saying is that there are so few Alliance players PuGing, that they’re caught in significant queue times because they’re unable to fill up their last final slots, while Alliance premades are getting instant queues. And, this would have to be to such a level that it creates a significant difference in the number of games being played by Alliance PuGs vs. Premades (as a ratio compared to Hordes’).

Sure, Horde are playing less games, so when they look at their ratio it may seem higher than it should be, but as their number of games increases it will get closer to the statistical average. Assuming proportions of the population are the same, Alliance Premades don’t magically get to play more than Alliance PuGs compared to Horde Premades vs. PuGs. Unless there is a skill discrepancy between either Alliance Premades and Horde Premades, Alliance PuGs and Horde PuGs which makes Alliance PuGs finish slower, or both. Which, hey, with streamers, min maxers w/ racials, and whatever the hell else that goes on in WoW could be the case. But you haven’t listed a skill or proportion discrepancy, or even PuG vs Premade queue times, as the cause, and to adopt it now as a justification for your presupposition would more than likely be just a dishonest rationalization in defense of your desired result.

Blizz please bring the same faction ques back. Casual bgs are core to wow and so many people will resub and stay subbed if this change is permanent. We are begging you.

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Even if we make a premade and que together the wait times are still over an hour

So remind me again why we can’t test additional Alliance honor/marks, which has the effect of adding more bodies to the PvP queue?

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That’s actually not true. The reason is pool sizes. Alliance players do not have a queue time, because as soon as they are queueing they are able to be matched up, BUT Horde groups are not able to. Because once a Horde group is done they are put at the back of the line, and made no longer available to the immediate group of Horde players. That’s what makes it a dependent variable. Alliance groups are immediately available for a new game after they are done, BUT NOT HORDE GROUPS. Because Horde groups must then wait in the line again, to be filtered back through the queue system.

The rest of your statement is just more misunderstanding how math, statistics, and dependent and independent variables work and really just means we’re back where we started. At this point you just don’t seem to be grasping what I am saying. Again, I STRONGLY suggest you actually look up the concepts I mentioned above and reassess your stance using the dependent variables. I mean, you can’t even properly address the recycling of Alliance teams through the queue system properly as evidenced by this gem here:

What do you mean where did they go? YOU CREATED FALSE GROUPS. You’re making wild assumptions about the percentages.

Because the way you treat the situation is like a coin flip, with the same chance of heads or tails each time you flip. But the BG queue system works more like drawing cards, where what you’ve previously drawn has an impact on what you will draw in the future. And this concept is most prevalent and easy to view when one side has a MASSIVE population disparity.

Here, I’ll give you a simple example. Let’s say that queue times are an hour for Horde, and the average bg is around 30 minutes. So that would put Horde at a 3 to 1 position against the alliance. So 30 to 90. There are 30 Alliance teams and 90 Horde teams. And we will say 10% are premades, so 3 and 9.

Since we are in a position where the count has to reset, we have to start from an assumed stable point. Let’s say right after reset. So both sides have an equal chance because the teams will be randomized, but they are in first in last out order.

So what happens after the first 30 Alliance teams are done? The first queue was a chance for each Alliance team to hit any of the 90 Horde teams, but NOW they won’t be doing that. The all 30 Alliance teams will only be queued against the next 30 Horde teams, that excludes the first 30 that just played. So the Alliance is only going up against 1/3 of the teams at a time, and each game eliminates a team from the potential group of Alliance players each time.

If we were to extrapolate then to games varying in length, What happens to a horde premade that wins quickly? Let’s say 10 minutes. What is their queue time? An hour still. Because even though they are a premade, they have to wait behind the other groups. They don’t get to recycle through the queue any faster than pugs.

But an Alliance Premade, they get to IMMEDIATELY pick up a new game. So Alliance Premades filter through the system three times faster than Alliance pug groups. This significantly inflates their representation in the queue system.

So every Horde Premade sees a game every 1 hour. Every Alliance Premade sees a game every 10 minutes. Every Alliance PUG sees a game every 30 minutes. What do you think that does to the percentage representation of premades in the queue system on Alliance side? Horde will end up seeing a premade from the Alliance THREE TIMES AS OFTEN if they finish their games three times faster.

Because again, these are DEPENDENT VARIBLES. The fact it is a QUEUE is what makes it work like that.

Population sizes in a queue system work like this:
When the populations of both sides are even, you see the most even results in representation.
When they are uneven, the side with the larger population sees the premades more often, because the premades do not have a line to wait in on the smaller side.
The larger the disparity, the worse the representation, because the larger the queue time the longer the wait for Horde premades to get into a game.

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  1. Instanced battlegrounds are separate from WPVP, but nice try!
  2. I mean, this is just your childish opinion
  3. Good attempt at antagonizing but deflecting from the point awards no victory.
  4. You were either being genuine or you’re a horrible writer and should blame no one but yourself for facts lost in recpetion

Please revive this game by having same faction pvp.

Already nothing is done to control faction ratio or server population dynamics. This is the only thing there is to do on servers that are entirely one faction. I did not create characters on a horde only server, Kromcrush. The alliance left because of heavy pvp and it was allowed. Now there is NO world pvp occurring and q’s for bgs are 30 minutes to an hour and always against alliance premades. Please revive this game before more people unsub and allow for the ease of play that occurred with same faction pvp.

BRING IT BACK!!! I need to know what’s going on before next payment cycle.

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How come they can add in a brand new change to help the Horde out but Alliance get nothing in return ? Not even a hint of compensation or any incentive to stay Alliance on a PVP Realm anymore.

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Tried to do the call to arms and win an AB. Did 5 games, lost them all. Almost 3 hours of pvp. I got 5 marks, and about 600 honor. Pretty sure the horde are getting more than that and they’re able to go farm ore and stuff between games.

Frustrating… Hurry up plsbliz

The actual numbers are 45% ally 55% horde though. It’s “unbalanced” because MOST horde roll on PVP servers and the vast majority of ally are on PVE servers. It was like this back in the day. In classic re-release of vanilla it was actually 60% ally 40% horde for almost every phase. The difference is the booster. Whatever problem you and most ally are facing is a server issue, not real-imbalances. (I am an ally main) made the mistake of rerolling horde for tbcc
Also 3/4 of the ally population straight up just do not PVP flat out. and i’d guess 3/4 of the horde population do. i.e why queues are terrible.

who would thought that alliance players would rather play on pve servers than getting ganked constantly? I wonder what changed that…

Hello Blizzard,

I’d like to PvP please, thank you!

Because you can’t separate PVP Server population from BG queues in your mind, even though they are very different issues that require different solutions. What’s more telling is when the Alliance go “Unfair Horde favoritism, what about Alliance PVP server issues!” unironically ignoring that PVP server population affects BOTH factions, because there are certainly servers that Alliance have the higher pop.

Yep. It’s only ever Alliance that get ganked on PVP servers. There are absolutely no Alliance dominated PVP servers or anything. It’s not like Alliance are all nice and sweet “Oh we’re on a PVP server Mister Orc, but I swear I won’t kill you on those mobs, or when you try and take that ore, or just because I feel like it.”

Give me a break. Most of the people complaining about PVP servers and getting ganked rolled on the PVP server to do the ganking at their leisure and not worry about getting ganked themselves. Welcome to the real world PVP. It isn’t pretty.

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People choose horde because they are meta slave. So what was your argument? Ho… you had none nvm.

That’s right. Every single member of the Horde picked their faction EXCLUSIVELY for TBC PVP meta, despite the fact that there are Horde that exist on PVE server, and that the majority of players came over from Classic and played for 2+ years. But sure, ALL of them are meta slaves. eye roll

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Who care about PVE server? Who said all of them? Just you bud. When the server imbalance is related to TBC launch, it is the horde meta slaver switching faction that create the problem. It is that hard to understand? People who want to play alliance did from day 1 Classic. People who want to play horde did it from day 1 classic too. In TBC, people switched faction and created the 40/60 or worst faction ratio. These are the meta slave horde. Poked your autistic rolling eyes.

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you realize the actual population on alliance and horde is not that much different? it’s literally just the number of people who PVP and QUE FOR BGs. that creates the imbalance. more people on alliance PVE than PVP. there is no excuse for anyone having to wait 30min-1hr just to play one PART of the game that they enjoy. this doesn’t fix the faction imbalance and there really won’t be anything that does. people are playing the factions they want with friends and guilds or just overall styles they enjoy… same for people who play alliance. get over yourself lol. yes there are meta chasers but they are a minority.

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Because the people that queue for BGs is not exclusive to PVP servers?

Your previous statement kind of implies that there isn’t another option, or at the very least you are making the assumption of this against all Horde you see.

So because 10% of the Horde in your mind made the switch because of a meta reason, 100% of the Horde should suffer from that situation? What is so hard to understand about THAT issue?

But a total faction ratio is quite different than an individual server faction ratio, and again the number of players that rolled Horde in TBCC are the vast MINORITY of Horde players. And yet we get pushback trying to eliminate an issue affecting the majority.

That’s extremely rude and against the CoC. I’d consider editing that out of your post.