Templar Strikes or Crusading Strikes?

Classes Paladin
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Hey, so just playing around with new builds and I am torn between Templar Strikes and Crusading Strikes. Before the update I was 100% Templar strikes as I like having something to hit that gives me Holy Power so I don’t have to rely on RNG. However since the update Templar Strikes does not feel as good and feels like it is on cooldown half the time that I want to use it…

Because of this I am thinking of going Crusading Strikes but I wanted to get some other Pallys opinions on them which do you prefer and why? any big differences in dmg or just overall play you have noticed with one over the other lately? Let me know your thoughts, thx.

Also incase it matters it is for M+ and Raids up to Heroic.

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Going to talk purely about how it feels

First off, CSaa isn’t RNG - it’s every two auto attacks, which can be tracked with a swing timer if prefered.
Secondly, i do vastly prefer CSaa, since the rotation gets to busy with TS - and it just feels extremely janky to me in general. The gameplay loop of optimizing cooldown window with auto-attack swings and divine toll procs is a really fun, predictable gameplay loop that i really love. I started out with using TS after rework, then tried CSaa and never went back.

With CSaa you rarely have nothing to press, but it does happen sometimes - but even in that case you’ll still have time to press other utility like Rebuke, Dispell, Sac, Word of glory and in those times it doesn’t feel bad compared to TS when you will feel the dps loss of using utility basically 100% of the time.

My sample size is mythic keys at +10-12 level, some heroic and mythic raiding. For actual tuning, the Sims aren’t working correctly AFAIK. If you don’t like tracking auto-attack swings then i probably wouldn’t recommend CSaa, but if you do, then I personally feel it’s a more satisfying loop than TS.

4 Likes
3

PvE Temp
PVP Crusade

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4

I’m gonna look up sims for both first and foremost.

Secondly, there are 2 “builds” (and I’m stretching the meaning of build here) I can think of.

  • With CSAA you go and take Zealot fervor to increase your attack speed.
  • With Templar you take those 2 points and put them into Heart of the Crusader.

Templar doesn’t work as intuitively as the rest of our abilities because of the fixed GCD between combo strikes.
It makes the flow a bit awkward to me at high haste but that could just be a question of getting used to it.

Right now, it doesn’t feel right to use because of our set where we have to prioritize having Expurg up and using judgement.

I’m looking forward to the set being gone to see how it fair when it has priority over BoJ.

On a side note:
Templar Slash has this one property, that is not discussed much, that allow us to free up a point in the bottom part.
Since it has inherent Radiant damage, it scale with mastery on its own and doesn’t need Blade of Light.

So basically, if you don’t like radiant glory and play Templar slash you could take both FR/ES bottom nodes.

Now I don’t see who would, but it’s an option.

Personally, I’d probably go Empyrean Legacy so as to still use the benefit of DS with Herald even when I’m in ST situations.

The second point would probably go back into Divine Wrath with 1min wings.

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This is easy. You take CS. Freeing up a hotkey is one of the most op things we can do

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You’d still want fervor because it effects art of war.

Also what isn’t being talked about here, is by taking templar, your allowing your charecter to benefit from windfury (skyfury) should a shaman be in the group.

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Damn. Good point.

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That’s a good point.

What’s interesting is, since you don’t have to pick Blade of Light, you can still take fervor.

Now of course, maybe BoL 5% damage increase is too much to pass for our other abilities.

All this remains the be seen after final tuning.

I have to say that with the amount of stats we have now and the new crit interaction, I get way more reset than I can use. I don’t know whether we’ll need the additional attack speed for AoW to proc consistently and as we need.

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Personally i would still go take it only to get DA since it stacks with mastery, which indirectly buffs our mastery stat with an additional skill. Also remember that 5% also double stacks with the radiant version for ts (unless that is fixed) thus boosting ts by 10% anyways.

Hmmm… maybe put one point in fervor and put the other in sanctity/2 charge how or the haste boost from single target finishers instead? (Although i think we get enough haste as is in herald.)

It’s kinda hard to get 2 points in heart with our current arrangement honestly if we want to get holy fire/BoV/empyrean power

Maybe we can sacrifice jurisdiction/ire for points in heart?

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CYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAAjpNLbzMbLbjx2YstNzGAAAAAAmtJamhBmZYMLjhZGmlZZGGGMMjxyCbAAAIzMtNLz2MAgNA this is what were probably running in raids

crusader strikes with new zeal and crusade radiant glory feels extremely smooth and has near 0 downtime.

m+ will look like
CYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAAjJW2mZ2W2mZsNzYbjtBAAAAAgZbimZYgZGGzyYYmhxsMjthBDzYsswGAwsMbzMzWDCAAYBA

maybe swap dw for rg who knows and who cares and flames for bov (idk post buffs numbers cause its extremely silly and makes me mad)

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It really depends on final numbers.
We can’t sim jack ATM.
What if they do X/Y/Z?

Really hard to tell.

Personally, I don’t think it should double dip on BC and BoL but if it does in the end, it does changes the way you have to look at it.

But in the end, the only way I see Hearth of the Crusader being taken is with TS.

CSAA is 48%AP which means Hearth adds 10%AP plus the crit damage.

Templar Strike is 122/225 which means Hearth adds 24.4/45 AP plus the crit damage which on a crit means 54/99 which subsequently transform into the DoT, so another 50%AP on the DoT.

Here’s something I made with Herald in mind for a M+ setup.

CYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAAjJW2mZ2W2mZsYGLLsNAAAAAAMbTegmZYgZGGzyYwMMLz2M2wYgZMW2YbAAzysNzMbNIAAgFA

So in this, it all depends where those loose point end up being the most efficient.

The reason I wasn’t picking Fervor is that, even in the past season, AoW was procing fine even on 20% AS.
Hell, they didn’t change the base proc rate and added a crit modifier, which admittedly is a proc of a proc but BoJ will create and when it does, it’ll just have even more chance to reset.
Furthermore you might not need BoJ as much if you put more focus on TS and HoW, so who’s to say we need fervor at all?

So if you don’t put it there, where does those point gives you the most bang for you buck?
BoL and DA are the most likely contender, if the 5% damage has stayed on DA, it might have been a different story because the sole purpose of BoL was making CS scale with mastery and enable DA gimmick.

But say for a moment that BoL cancels out the radiant damage and the 5% doesn’t stack.

Herald puts a lot of focus on DS yet wouldn’t be used at all in ST, but Empyrean Legacy could help us cheat it out on ST and still benefit.

Also if you don’t use BoJ as much, maybe you take Holy Flames instead since it has more value in ST and still has value in AoE.

So that’s my thoughts on it.
I think the talents we have ATM on Beta add much more flexibility on our damage profiles than what we had previously and I don’t think it’s yet obvious what will be best.

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Thanks for all the replies guys gives me a better picture of it, I have been playing around with Crusading Strikes and it works well, my fingers are just freaking out still as they are trying to use my old rotation haha so once my fingers adjust it will be better.

As far as the conversation of Heart of the Crusader or not as it seems a lot of people are talking about that, to me it just seems like for your single target/raid build you take Heart of the Crusader and for your AOE/M+ build you take Blessed Champion.

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i would always take feavor. its way to good not to take

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you’ll get used to it. once you get proper rotational mastery csaa feels alot smoother than any other filler spell. good job trying it out and getting stronger casue of it :+1:

also ya aoem+ is blessed champion and heart of the crusader is contested for st raid

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This x 1000.

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Honestly i am surprised you didn’t pick up empyrean power with that build since ds and HoW procs the same DoT, so more chance with both, the better upkeep of said DoT.

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I was trying to find a balance between ST and AoE, Emp Power is this kind of talent that really just seems to enhance AoE.
Although, I didn’t check if with the buffs to DS it warrants it being used in ST if you get a proc.

Edit: It seems like it does?
FV is 161% AP and DS is 116%

116*1.05 ( Burning Crusade)*1.15 (Emp power)*1.20 (Tempest) = 168%

Assuming you don’t take BoL, the proc warrants being used in ST, uhh

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I might jump on later today or something to double check the tool tip for ts if you pick up bol or not.

But yeah, free ds modifiers are pretty rad, and it’s even crazier with 5+ stack or ire.

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yes but theres talents more impactful than eP, idk why people would want to use it. even jje is more impactful

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Jje is only useful for AoE. It has 0 impact in single target.