If we’re going by the whole thing back from vanilla, the elemental won’t even be allowed to roll on cloth.
So we are looping back around.
Yeah, sometimes.
But people also stacked the hell out of fire mages in Naxx because ignite was insane.
People stacked shamans in Sunwell because you could chain bloodlust and that was the only way people saw to be able to kill bosses like Muru.
People stacked arcane on Spine of Deathwing because the burst made dpsing the armor trivial.
I mean if you’re going to niche pick situations where things work in your favor I can do the same. It’s almost like WoW has a social aspect to it that’s completely separate from the game mechanics.
But I’m also acknowledging the limitations those mechanics brought in and of themselves for the time.
It’s not even just Naxx though. They’re still the second least brought class in every other raid tier just behind Druids.
and if it weren’t for Tranq Shot, that number would probably be even lower.
If you make hybrids do competitive DPS, you will see a significant drop off in pure DPS numbers in raids like what has happened to Hunters.
It just seems that all the people who want to buff hybrid DPS don’t give a damn or refuse to believe that would happen despite it happening to Hunters on private servers.
Don’t me wrong I’m all for buffing hunters too.
The point is more that when all you offer is DPS, and there are other alternatives that offer more than that then people don’t take that class.
Even in Molten Core where Hunters haven’t run into scaling issues yet, and even though there is a requirement to have 1-2 of them for Tranq Shot.
So what happens if they buff hybrid DPS to be competitive and suddenly raids don’t want to bring Rogues because they offer nothing special outside of DPS?
/shrug that didn’t happen when they buffed hybrid dps, so no people didn’t just drop pure classes when other classes also became viable dps.
It was posted a while ago that Rogue population dropped off significantly during WotLK including numbers from archived data gathering sites for class distribution. If you have evidence saying otherwise by all means, I would love to see where you get the idea that “it didn’t happen when they buffed hybrid DPS”.
Plus as I noted: Hunters aren’t being brought to raids even where they haven’t run into DPS issues yet.
You can ignore it all you want, but we have plenty of data that agrees with the idea that you would see a shift away from pures.
Well in wrath, we both got a new melee dps class added other melee specs became more viable and their population didn’t significantly drop off. They still did make up the majority of melee DPS(and still do) so they were hardly replaced.
That they had more competition beyond warriors meant their representation went down some is to be expected. But no they were hardly replaced by evil hybrids stealing their jerbs.
and I assume you have the data to back this statement up?
Hmm… I was able to find class distributions for wrath awhile ago. Regardless they were hardly replaced by hybrids.
In my raid group two of our three rogues switched to DK and I believe one of our warriors did.
You realize this makes no sense right? I mean like none at all.
All healers are hybrids. Say it with me ’ All healers are hybrids '.
So what you just said was:
Which is saying that because they don’t have hybrids dealing damage, they can be healing. But they are still right there, in the raid… being hybrids.
And on the bosses you need fewer healers you are going to. . . what? keep them as healers because. . . ? It’s some how safer for them to be healing, even though the group clearly doesn’t need more healing? It’s dangerous for some reason to have them dealing damage?
Some bosses need more healing, some need more damage. When composing a raid group one of the things you take into account is the max healing needed, so unless you think your guild is going to be so amazing that people will literally be lining up waiting to raid with you hybrids/healers will be dealing damage or off tanking on some fights simply because they don’t need to be healing, and as you all have pointed out endlessly a fury warrior does more damage than a druid/paladin… so why wouldn’t the hybrid off tank?
No they are in the raid being healers.
I guess you are forgetting weapon, offhand, necklace, 2x rings, 2x trinkets. All of which will be healing focused if you are planning to heal and have the heals be meaningful.
While Death Knights did skew numbers a bit there is still notable drop off in pure DPS player population.
In March 2005, Rogues made up 15% of the playerbase: https://web.archive.org/web/20050315004912/http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php
Meanwhile at the end of WotLK, they were 8%, almost half of what they were in Vanilla: https://web.archive.org/web/20100324070311/http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=80&maxlevel=80&servertypeid=-1
Granted Death Knights were the most popular class at the time of the WotLK snapshot I linked, but if you compare the two notice how all the hybrids actually increase in population(even if only slightly) while all the pure DPS + Warriors lost players.
So it’s not just a case of “Death Knights drew people away from other classes”. Hunter and Rogue especially took massive hits in playerbase from Vanilla to WotLK.
Some people just want to deny that this would happen if hybrids in Vanilla did competitive DPS. This despite the fact that in WotLK their support was also nerfed and it happened anyway.
So your census shows that hunters, rogues, and warriors were the most played classes in vanilla. If there numbers drop because hybrids got a buff that doesn’t hurt anything. If anything people probably couldn’t play their preferred class because they weren’t able to play it in the way they wanted.
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Noone is denying anything, yes as other classes became viable melee dps rogue representation went down, that is entirely normal and expected. But they were hardly replaced, which is what you are claiming.
All your numbers really show is that rogues were over represented in vanilla.
Saying some people stopped playing rogue, because now they were able to play the class they preferred to play because it was viable now, is not a winning argument as far as I am concerned.
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Because they separated the classes into 3 specs each, removing many of the hybrid skills or power levels.