Teachings of the Monastery, Math + Current Issues

TL;DR

Optimizing around Teachings of the Monastery (TotM) feels unnecessarily complicated, primarily due to the interactions going into and out of Blackout Kick. It almost feels like a design flaw for the 3rd stack of TotM to be so undesirable, both in terms of optimization and in the general flow of how TotM is played.

TotM would feel much smoother and be easier to figure out if Tiger Palm triggered Rising Sun Kick resets instead of Blackout Kick (adjusting the reset chance as needed).

Tiger Palm would feel more rewarding, Blackout Kick would be easier to “wind up”, and Rising Sun Kick would still get its rotational resets. Figuring out an optimal way to to interact with a single ability shouldn’t require a ton study and math… its play-style should be intuitive.

ToTM, How Many Stacks?

This post would be way too big if I tried to simulate every possible synergy in the new Dragonflight talent trees (along with the fact Windwalkers will have access to it as well), so I’m going to present my scenarios from the perspective of a Shadowlands-ish Fistweaver focusing on questing and outdoor world content (more damage, less healing). I’ll revisit some factors from a high level perspective later, but let’s dive into some numbers.

Stat references (using my current level 44 numbers):

  • Tiger Palm (TP) - 94 damage. Usable every global cooldown (GCD).
  • Blackout Kick (BK) - 268 damage. Usable every other GCD.
  • Rising Sun Kick (RSK) - 681 damage. Usable every 8th GCD unless it resets.
  • Teachings of the Monastery (TotM) - TP causes BK to hit an extra time, stacks up to 3. BK has a 15% (per hit) to reset RSK’s cooldown.

I’ll outline two different approaches for leveraging TotM to increase damage output. For simplicity’s sake, I won’t be mixing in any healing spells or Thunder Focus Tea into these rotations. Rotation #1 will prefer max stacks of TotM when reasonable, whereas Rotation #2 will just go fishing for as many RSK resets as possible within reason.

Rotation #1 - no resets:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
RSK → TP → TP → TP → BK (x4) → TP → TP → TP
→ RSK → BK (x4) → TP → TP → TP → BK (x4) → TP → TP
→ RSK → TP → BK (x4) → TP → TP → TP → BK (x4) → TP
→ RSK → TP → TP → BK (x4) → TP → TP → TP → BK (x4)

(repeat)

  • Tiger Palm (x21): 1,974 (no crits) - 3,948 (all crits) total damage
  • Blackout Kick (x28): 7,504 - 15,008 total damage
  • Rising Sun Kick (x4): 2724 - 5,448 total damage
  • Total: 12,202 - 24,404 damage

Rotation #2 - no resets:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
RSK → BK → TP → BK (x2) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → TP
→ RSK → BK (x3) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → TP
→ RSK → BK (x3) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → TP
→ RSK → BK (x3) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → BK (x2) → TP → TP

(as you can see, the rotation repeats pretty cleanly)

  • Tiger Palm (x16): 1,504 - 3,008 total damage
  • Blackout Kick (x26): 6,968 - 13,936 total damage
  • Rising Sun Kick (x4): 2724 - 5,448 total damage
  • Total: 11,196 - 22,392 damage

Calculating RSK Resets

Assuming zero luck with RSK resets, Rotation #1 deals roughly 9% more damage than Rotation #2. If we factor in a 15% for BK to reset the cooldown on RSK, things get more interesting (as does the math).

For simplicity’s sake, I’ll assign a value to an RSK reset triggered from BK by how soon RSK can be used again. So, using the “rotation” tables above as a reference, a BK triggering a reset in the 8th position of the rotation has a value of “0” (because RSK would’ve been usable in the next GCD anyway) whereas a reset triggered in the 2nd position has a value of “6”.

  • Rotation #1 Total Reset Value: 3x4 + 6x4 + 2x4 + 5x4 + 1x4 + 4x4 + 0x4 = 84
  • Rotation #2 Total Reset Value: 6x10 + 4x8 + 2x8 = 104

Trying to keep this relatively simple, we’ll multiply the reset value by 0.15 (representing 15%) to estimate the number of extra RSKs we’d get out of each rotation. Then, we’ll add those extra RSKs onto the damage total for each:

  • Rotation #1: 12.6 extra RSKs, adding 8,580 - 17,151 damage.
  • Rotation #2: 15.6 extra RSKs, adding 10,623 - 21,247 damage.

New totals including an estimated value for RSK resets:

  • Rotation #1: 20,782 - 41,555 damage.
  • Rotation #2: 21,819 - 43,639 damage, roughly 5% higher than Rotation #1.

The math and logic behind this isn’t perfect, but the presentational estimate is enough to get a point across: Maximizing the benefits of TotM is counter-intuitive to how the ability seems to be intended to work.

Other Considerations for ToTM

  • Rotation #1 effectively suffers from diminishing returns along with a slower ramp-up on longer fights.
  • Rotation #2 is significantly more flexible when needing to weave in other abilities while RSK is on cooldown.
  • Rotation #2 takes better advantage of talents which work off of Rising Sun Kick due to the increased number of resets in comparison to Rotation #1.
  • In the Dragonflight Mistweaver tree, the synergies available to each ability affected by TotM have a dramatic effect on how desirable they are to use:
    • Tiger Palm: Ancient Teachings of the Monastery, Awakened Faeline
    • Blackout Kick: Ancient Teachings of the Monastery, Spirit of the Crane, Ancient Concordance
    • Rising Sun Kick: Ancient Teachings of the Monastery, Thunder Focus Tea, Rapid Diffusion, Rising Mist.
3 Likes

I just use a priority system and completely ignored TotM.

If RSK is up, use that. If BCK is up, use that. Nothing else, use Tiger Palm. Is it efficient? Probably not, but it made life much easier.

1 Like

Thank you for the math. I figured always trying to get 3 TP in to be a chore, especially if there is a lot of damage happening. Also if your haste is not good, makes jamming 3 TPs pretty annoying. Im going to try rotation 2 more often. It seems to be more fluid since can weave in actual heals since AOTM is a dumb heal with low range.

1 Like

I think the issue is the timing of RSK normal CD. By the time I have stacked three TPs, there’s often like 1 second remaining on RSK. So I sit on the TP stacks, RSK normally, then BOKx4. In that extra GCD I pretty much can only TP for the extra damage, even when I already have three stacks. I would love to see RSK get a second charge when we get a reset similar to mind blast for spriests, or decrease the reset chance, buff ROK damage (even though 4 roks on one gcd is a good amount of healing), and maybe give us another renewing mist charge to manage? Obviously you’d have to tune that just thinking out loud.

Basically I think MW just needs one more medium CD (8-15secs) rotational ability to fill that gap that is often created.

You don’t really need to stack teachings of the monastery to 3 every single time. Its not additive probability on if RSK will reset but rather an additional coin flip per stack which means tp bok tp bok = tp tp tp bok in terms of rsk reset chance. You can sim MW’s damage and the damage difference between tp bok vs tp tp tp bok is nearly 0.
In all reality the only reason you’d want to stack totm to 3 is for sotc.

If anything this makes Blackout Kick a filler spell that you only use to get rid of TotM stacks. That’s not good gameplay.
Right now the abilities flow with eachother in a supporting manner.

It also has to be said that we are a healer, we need a rotation that can be switched off of at any point in the chain without losing a lot of throughput/reset chances which naturally pushes you away from fully stacking TotM.

OP: really really long post just to say
“It takes too long to stack up to 3 tiger palms with everything else going on in the game, by that time the cooldown of RSK is almost reset already anyways and if I use Blackout Kick I’m likely wasting a RSK reset”

Actually this is the most efficient way to play to maximize ATOTM healing. Stacking up to 3 times is only useful in a handful of niche situations (Before popping Chi Ji to get instant EVM is the only notable instance).

This is why in my additional talents post, I actually made a comment on this effect needing a talent adjustment:

It would be nice to see a damage duplicate version that deals more damage instead of healing on additional RSK resets. Ex. The BoKs either hit multiple targets when they proc a RSK reset or each reset on a BOK dump automatically hits a nearby target with a RSK would be nice. That way we can choose between throughput or more DPS depending on the situation

What if they like … made it stackable to 2 and the blackout kicks deal 150% damage instead?