I keep reading this over and over again, so I thought I’d ask what you all think.
Obviously making heroism/blood lust a raid wide buff means you don’t need 5 shamans to cover every group for that specific spell, but what about totem coverage?
It seems to me that totems are still so good, you’d ideally want every group to have them, or at the very least 4 groups to have them.
I thought I’d ask the forum to see what your opinion is on this situation if we were to get raid-wide lust instead of group-wise.
at this point they should atleast put in the change to have your CDs reset after a boss kill or wipe. Also give the sated debuff so people dont stack shamans or rotate a shaman in and out of a “lust group”. So one group cant get 5 bloodlusts back to back.
If totems & lust is raid wide, you’d probably bring at least 1 of each shaman, possibly more with resto shamans being strong hps anyway. Ele for their raid buffs, enhance for their twisting and resto for their healing
there would be no purpose for a 2nd ele or enhance
there are like 9 classes and only 25 raid slots, you shouldn’t feel the need to fill 20% of your raid with shamans. with most raids 3 of any class should be enough to cover your needs
I don’t know what causes people to ask for changes to expansion defining features, but here we are.
It’s like saying I love this vanilla ice cream, but you know what would make it even better? Using soy-based drink instead of the milk from cows.
At least in my opinion. That is to say that these are the sorts of things that really make particular versions of the game stand out, look, feel, and play like those versions of the game, so changes to them are fundamental changes to those versions.
Raid wide Shaman buffs is scary…so we can run WF, Grace of Air, Wrath of Air and Tranquil Air on everyone? Theoretically we could run 16 different totems if you have 4 shamans…it makes Shaman even stronger raid utility
Also, with raid wide lust your still bringing 1 enhance, 1 ele and as many resto shamans as you can find
Enhance and Ele have talented abilities that further buff the raid (Unleashed Rage / Totem of Wrath)
Resto Shaman is a top 2 healer in TBC due to Chain Heal. The mechanics of how it seeks out players with the lowest HP when it jumps makes it amazing
Sure. Something can be “kind of dumb” and also be defining of a period of gaming.
Classic is “kind of dumb,” and indeed pretty much everything that makes it good could be described that way as well.
The main differences between Retail and Classic that make Classic shine (at least in my opinion and from my current perspective) are hardships and lack of ”QoL” and to prefer that or opt for it is definitely, “kind of dumb.”
I think it might depend. I think not all specs of shaman are potent in TBC, yea? A weak spec could still get a raid slot because they bring lust in the OG TBC implementation. If its made raid-wide though, they’ll get less prio over stronger DPS. I don’t really agree with that as a reason to not make the change to lust being raid wide, but it certainly is a valid perspective.
A stronger reason to not make that change really boils down to what Blizzard intends to do with TBC at all. If it’s going to be an Era style server, I think some care should be given here. This might seem like an easy win change but those knock-on effects will have an impact on the preservation of the experience (or lack thereof). However, if Blizzard is just going to run TBC for a year and then progress it onwards, I don’t think it really matters what they do.
off-topc on-topic, this is part of why I feel even the original devs of WoW probably couldn’t repeat a success as it is, cause some of it is just simply bad design that accidentally works for players
Just double the HP of all TBC raid bosses and then strategically nerf the bosses whose mechanics don’t necessarily make boss health the main obstacle (like maybe Netherspite).
They nailed the core gameplay loop in Classic, which was very intentional. When you do that you can you make a lot of mistakes elsewhere
How you get guided from area to area via quests and how every 2 levels you get to train up a new toy to play with or ability to talent into…all intentional, always “1 more level” or “1 more quest” and ill stop for today
You will
want 2 / 3 shama in a 25 depending on the speed of your team so that every single boss you have lust.
A simple 5 mins forbearance CD would be enough to prevent chaining with a 10 min CD on the ability.
Its important to remeber that TBC is 25 players making 2 / 3 shama darn good representation.
There will always however be dumpster specs in game, IE dagger rogues soon as T6 comes out just cant keep up with swords because of passive stats like hit / exp being so strong that swords run away from daggers due to energy proc mechanics with sword spec, and additionally mongo just does not proc on daggers as frequently as it should (like crusader) on this game engine the proc enchants in BC / Vanilla just dont play nice with daggers. Leaving really the only good spec to raid in TBC for rogue as combat swords.
Mage / Lock / Hunter suffers kinda the same fate, meanwhile all hybrids get 2+ viable builds for PVE… Its kinda gross.
So dont feel bad for shama, there will dead minimum be 2 with raid wide buffs because you need at least 2 for lust on every boss… well unless the raid is tragically slow then 1 will do… Fast teams will want 3 because lust is so OP.
Down from minimum 5 though. Keep in mind that this is less about propping up shaman and more about maintaining expectations for TBC. Yes, there will always be dead specs in the game, but changing how raid buffs work will shift that.
If TBC is just another FOMO throw-away, I don’t think it ultimately matters. If this is how TBC will be forever in an Era fashion, just a little care might be warranted. I’m not even saying don’t do it, just that it’s worth consideration.
I mean we see the same thing on Vanilla Era. Warriors need a change, you shouldn’t have a Vanilla raid that’s 40% Warrior any more than you should have a TBC raid that’s 20% shaman. However, people get preeeeeeetty upset at the idea of giving raids less reason to bring Warriors haha. I can only assume TBC will be the same.
At this point though, I don’t think Blizzard will do TBC Era so it’s kind of irrelevant.
5 shamans tho, that’s 1/5 slots; kinda ridiculous for a class to have that many raid slots. Just like warriors in Vanilla 1.12, no one should get that kinda special treatment.
Fastest easiest way to nerf warriors is make HS, Cleave and Hamstring have a 6 sec CD… Now they are basically down in the ranks with every other class. No need to nerf rage or even touch the damage scaling on abilities.
Some funny irony; despite the forums, warrior is actually the best DPS in TBC also, even in T4 content. Just takes optimal raid buffs, but they massively outperform all other classes.
