Hi Blizzard, I would like you to please consider some things for TBC that would help TBC be more like the original game than a Literalist No-Changes that in its own way does harm the integrity of the game.
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So you don’t want TBC. You want Khlause’s optimal TBC.
4 Likes
Behsten and Slahtz, and WoTLK Resilience
/that Italy kissing gesture “Bravissimo!”
I found the video interesting to watch, but if you’re only interested in the discussion of changes, then fast forward to 12:20 and start there.
Personally, I would be fine with the removal of Leeway, world buffs when entering raids, battlegrounds off the bat.
I don’t think they would hurt anything. But that is just my opinion.
Regardless of what version Blizzard chooses to release, I will play it.
Gag.
No thanks. I want the fun game back that I played in 2006 to 2008. I don’t want it messed with to “keep it challenging”*.
*I remember before it launched the first time, one teenage boy in my guild insisted that he hoped it would be balanced such that you needed Naxxramas gear to survive in Hellfire Peninsula at all, so it would be challenging. The fact that the bulk of the playerbase, including him, would then have been unable to play it was apparently lost on him.
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False.
Actually I want TBC tuned for 2.4 game state becaues we know they are gonna use 2.4 its kinda obvious.
And while the classes change less than Vanilla, its still a change and it still makes a difference.
I also would like to see the Dungeons and Raids tuned to emulate their hardest passable state based on 2.4 Classes because Literalist No changes is not actually “No changes” if you compare to actual TBC
I am by no means extreme on my views here, I just know that literal no changes simply does not work out because it does not provide us with the real game, it provides us with something similar to the real game but its not really the game we played because first the Client and Servers are different, and second class balance and state of tune of the instances was not static.
As a result “End game” 2.4 tuning of content is wrong if you consider the 2.0 game state.
Also things like Arena rating requirements were added in Season 2 or 3, and they were a good thing, and should be part of Season 1, instead of ignored.
Also in 2.3 I think it was they finally got round to adding Resilience to Retribution Paladin PVP armor, something that SHOULD have been part of the game since day 1, but due to a certain mad kid at Blizzard Paladin Ret was not Arena viable in the first few seasons…
In other words literalist no changes does not work, and a very careful mix of things needs to be considered for the best possible TBC experience.
Its my hope that Blizzard AFTER TBC comes out will also revisit Classic WoW and take care of some really bad things; stuff like Batching, Leway, and certain questionable items like diamond flask and combo points vanishing on distract, but some how as if by magic staying on my target when I use mouse over macros to circumvent the API restrictions.
Lots of little things that need attention, and “No changes” cannot exist in a vacuum, its just not realistic or even representative of the real game.
This is not asking for the balance of power to be changed, but instead to give us an experience as close to the original TBC as possible.
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Leeway has always existed in the game, it still exists in BfA today. There’s a reason for its existence, and it’s likely to do with people purposely lagging around to avoid being hit by melee. In one of these threads, I saw someone defending leeway by showing a private server video of a Feral Druid that couldn’t be hit by melee attacks.
“Out of range.”
I notice that the people who want leeway removed are largely the same people that wanted Spell batching, and then changed their minds once they saw what it was actually like. I hope Blizzard doesn’t listen to these people a second time.
I used to be a batching hater but I’ve come to like it a lot.
There are a lot of cool things you can do with batching especially so if you play a melee class.
That being said it seems a common consensus is that content should be tuned for the version of the game that we get.
We might just progressive balance and tuning patches like the original TBC however the more likely scenario is we go from start to finish on purely the latest TBC patch
A concern I have with progressing the classes though their patches is where do you allocate those choices? Reason for this is there were some really broken things in Early TBC that had to be nerfed that got nerfed and a progression patch system would create some problems.
SL/SL locks would be a bit too ridiculous for words, and its something that private server players don’t seem to understand because I suspect a lot of them did not Arena in TBC early on.
Next is Bear tanks, they did more damage than feral cat, and that’s not because cat form was bad, but because bear tanks were that silly.
That’s among the few things that come to mind right off the top of my head. Oh and Paladin had no resilience on their Retribution Arena set while ALL other class specs had Resilience as a stat. It had ZERO to do with item budget because they “corrected” this issue later 2.3 I think it was, and that’s just unfair to players (specifically a player I would like to arena with) who play Ret.
This is why I say Literalist no changes just does not work out well here, its kinda a mess and some measure must be taken.
Time will tell.
No changes was always their plan for Classic Vanilla but they’ve made no such promises for TBC and beyond and have even mentioned there being possible changes based on community feedback.
I don’t mind the core idea behind no-changes like trying to stick with the Vanilla timeline stuff, content, and features, but sticking with say for example 1.12 only in a vacuum is just unrealistic for obvious reasons. At least I hope those reasons are somewhat obvious.
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Actually I want TBC tuned for 2.4 game state becaues we know they are gonna use 2.4 its kinda obvious.
Is it? They have all the data for the TBC patches, they dont HAVE to start it at 2.4 because this time they can actually start at 2.0. They only started classic on 1.12 because they had no choice, going back any further would have literally required them to make… quite a few changes to say the least. It would have taken another year at least to come out (all the crap they would need to rebuild is astounding).
I totally agree that no changes doesn’t work so well for WoW, even if they start at 2.0 they still need to create phases, fix a couple of issues, and make sure kael and vashj aren’t bugged to hell again. Hell, leeway needs a fix for arenas just so tauren can’t whack people across a wall. But these are all things that can be done starting at 2.0
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No one but feral bears want 2.0 Feral bear dominance again. its broken as can be, feral bear form should never have outperformed cat DPS while tanking, hell it should not have out performed DPS Warrior damage while also at the same time tanking… It was busted and nerfed for a very good reason.
I am sure they have the patches like you are saying, but 2.0 was not very good, TBC did not really start to get good until maybe 2.1 / 2.2, that’s when things started to balance out a bit for the classes, and progressively got better as the patches progressed.
None of them were absolutely perfect, but 2.0 was really bad in terms of class balance and tuning.
I feel like they should look at things on a case by case basis…
Content, sure start at 2.0, make certain encounters almost impossible, I am cool with tthat, but the classes… no way.
Tbh, I don’t mind ferals getting a little love after the pain of classic but thats beside the point. They can release patches again like they did for classic, it’s not a lost art. The other issue is that at 2.4 you can’t get crushed and guess what feral tanks weakness is. You legit have 0 reason to run warriors tanks if they start at 2.4, heroic attunement is much simpler and attunement in general becomes much simpler, none of which are good things. To make matters worse, raiding is SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed in 2.4 pretty much across the board. We already saw how this felt with classic, where everything that wasn’t naxx died to a light breeze, we do not want the same mistake to happen in TBC. If we want to get a shot at having good, balanced raids in TBC that actually fight back, then we’d want to start at patch 2.0 and push blizzard to redo their balance changes. Besides, they could just release 2.0 with a couple of nerfs and buffs built in from day 1 to avoid the issue.
Feral is actually good in Vanilla Classic, and they are even better in TBC, but 2.0 was idiotic.
that’s kinda what I was hoping for, regarding the content, but have it more TRUE to real TBC for the raid tuning and dungeons and stuff.
I was talking 2.4 only for the Classes so that Paladins dont suck for 70% of the expansion, and so that the other classes are more balanced.
Was talking about 2.4 Classes, this is not something that needs to be directly locked into the Content.
Feral isnt “good” its Viable but like you said it was excellent TBC at the start. Mangle is just a joke for threat and damage in 2.0
That would probably be a lot better than what we’re going to get: Blizzard's Laziest TBC.
TBC classic needs to be a frankenpatch with bug fixes, balance, and optimizations from later patches, but without the direct content nerfs and removal of things like attunements. Oh, and in order for TBC arena to be similar to the original, Blizzard also needs to step in and make balance tweaks for the sake of Arena during the course of TBC. I know people don’t like the idea of changes, but leaving the balance static would be a massive change that would lead to serious problems with how the arena seasons play out.
We’re probably not going to get any of that, though. It’ll be patch 2.4 with time-gated content, and blizzard won’t touch the balance. I’m not even convinced they’ll keep attunements in.
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Skip tbc and release wolk
Thought-provoking video. Blizzard should be able to identify the most egregious flaws in releasing the game as is and introduce #somechanges to fix them. World buffs and boosting are perfect examples of things that damn near broke the game.
However, I think it’s unrealistic, for one major reason. Blizzard doesn’t care about Classic. They didn’t want it. It’s a huge slap in the face to them every single day that many people prefer it over their “improved” retail version of the game. They only released it because the potential profits were too much for any sane for-profit company to ignore.
But they don’t want to have to manage it, especially when they know that nobody’s going to be happy anyway. Everyone has their own personal changes that they’d like to see, and almost nobody’s are the same. They just want to do as little effort as possible, keeping development costs as low as possible, and collect as much easy profit as possible, while focusing all of their resources and creativity on their baby, retail WoW.
So there is absolutely no chance that we get multiple versions of TBC. And probably little chance that they will change anything significantly at all.
Plus, despite the mocking of #nochanges, there is still the very real danger that #somechanges results in crap like WoW tokens, paid boosts, and cash shop, which you pointed out early in the video. Blizzard would likely love to introduce these things because they would result in even more profits for them, and it was only #nochanges that gave them pause.
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This is exactly why I don’t crap on the no-changes guys, I get why they feel that way, it makes sense, and I cant blame them I would not want any modern features in game if at all possible because they are just not native to the original experience.