Tanks watch too many videos and dont play the game enough

Community General Discussion
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That’s right I said it. The amount of people I see trying to pull off these huge pulls without defensives, without really know what the party is capable of. They watch a handful of videos and think recreating that in a public scenario is achievable within the first attempt.

You get an overlap of mechanics, the tank isn’t really tracking his cds and you get new players trying to mimic very experienced pulls that have done by that streamer numerous of times.

And the sheer nerve of skipping very much needed practice in lower keys and going straight for 12s and up is just icing on the cake. Stop making 20 billion alts, figure out what you want to play that season and work on getting better at it. Play the game! The videos are great for once you’re already familiar with the game but solely going off them shows how a) you’re just a follower b) you can’t seem to figure out your own way to play the game.

Tanking used to be an artform, it use to require concentration. Now you just run in and pull as much stuff and let the healer patch up your mistakes. Most of the time they don’t even track how much threat they’ve established before moving to the next pack. A big no no that apparently went out away as each expansion got released.

A great tank is amazing when you experience it, someone who knows the dungeon. Knows what each pack casts, what the pitfalls of combing packs are. For example in Operation floodgate. At some stupid point last season, it became the meta to pull the divers and architect on the way to duos together. I don’t know who decided this was a great idea, but i’ve experienced rather smooth runs seem to dip after this pull. It’s stupid and people only do it because it’s popular, not because it makes any sense. It’s too much of a risky pull. Dealing with the divers on their own is a much better call in pugs. But because this is the popular way of doing things, try convincing people otherwise.

Seeing people tank this season has been rough! Now I’m not against people learning how to tank, but do that stuff at lower keys. Stop cutting corners on other peoples time.

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Problem is, you have too many people who think of WoW as a game. Something to pass the time. They just don’t realize that WoW is far more than a game. It’s a profession, a calling, a service to your fellow man.

Why without the basement worriers going though the internet to battle evil pixels and data structures our villages, our states, our countries, our entire way of life would be lost.

FOR AZEROTH !!!

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And you have too many dps and healers who say if the tank doesn’t make those pulls they saw in videos, they are bad and doing it wrong.

Then leave the group.

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I’d much rather have a tank learning routes but actually has some situational awareness over the spaz trying to do MDI pulls in a +8.

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100% this… pull more!

Ping
Ping
Ping

What are you doing

I have cooldowns

Ping ping

Meanwhile im checking damage meter… i have 25 interrupts and my dps have 5 total between all of them

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We need a stacking debuff for DPS that don’t interrupt.

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You guys fall victim to peer pressure. If the keys in, everyone follows your lead. All you gotta do is talk to YOUR team. If you get some annoying dps, just don’t even pay them any mind! If you’re experienced enough, the comments shouldn’t even bother you

I never tell the tank what to do unless they pull a fair bit of burden onto me as a healer.

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HA! HAHA! HAHAHAHA!

That is the biggest bunch of…nevermind. People who think the tank is slow or not following a route pull for the tank. That tank you describe might being going at a pace they are comfortable with that line with cooldowns, but then get hammered by a dps who doesn’t respect that.

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Well the event is timed … So if people think you’re slow. Chances you are!
You gotta figure out pacing, that’s what lower keys are for. By the time you get into 12’s you should have all the nuts and bolts figured out.

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People are also people, with their own actions. Sometimes you get into a group where they don’t know what they are doing either and make mistakes. Or they themselves don’t know to interupt this mob or use a defensive there. It’s why you hear so many say to form groups with friends and guild members. People who are familiar with the route and do what is needed. You don’t have time to remind or explain important mechanics to pugs.

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A tank’s role is to steer the group by holding aggro on trash and bosses. The simple fact of the matter is that if the tank is going at a pace that they are comfortable with, but the rest of the group isn’t, that is a mix-up of priorities. But unlike the rest of the group, the tank actually has agency and can pull more or at least attempt to match the rest of the group. If it fails and one dies, then that’s all there is to that.

A tank who is afraid of dying will never ever be a good tank, or honestly a tank at all. I say this as someone who has been tanking since TBC and back then I was a kid who didn’t even know what the word “threat” meant.

A DPS pulling more for you, unless they are doing so to grief the group, is indicating “go faster.” As a tank, then your job is to go faster.

Yes, people make mistakes.
… that’s the full sentence, the only difference is that when folks play with friends and guild mates, one communicate stuff to mitigate these mistakes. When you do that as a PUG, you communicate with typing, pings, and actions (such as a DPS pulling more in a non-griefing fashion).

Even if the additional pull was a mistake (either by making the route go over %, someone backed into a trash pack, or anything else like that) … that’s fine. Just because others have this idea of “mistakes aren’t allowed to happen” doesn’t make that right, because by doing mistakes when learning is how you improve.

This will mean some deaths will be incurred and that one have to be happy with that. All of this is why I’m saying that a tank who is afraid of dying cannot ever be a good tank. Because if you are scared of dying, you are scared of making a mistake.

What the OP said with “watch too many videos and don’t play the game enough” is literally all of this. Folks are scared of making mistakes and owning up to simple things such as “I was going too slow”, “I didn’t use my defensives appropriately”, or “The group wiped, dang it but oh well - time to go again!”

But just because folks are scared of making mistakes doesn’t make that position a reasonable one.

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I don’t agree with dps pulling. I think that just makes thing worse for everyone, including the dps. Do tanks have to learn to deal with this in pug groups, sure. Is it acceptable, no. It rarely works out and it just throws a wrench in the key.

I think if we spent a good 2 minutes before every key goes in, just talking to your team mates … things would work out more often. Tanks can go over the key points, healers would know what to expect and dps would have an idea of the pace.

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It’s unfortunate that some go the route of, “I am perfect. I don’t need to improve. That wipe was someone else’s fault.” I’m guilty of that sometimes. But when the group dies because of it, that’s when the anger and insults and group disbands. So many players have the same experience. It’s unfortunate because is causes people to be scared of mistakes.

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No time to learn though practical means, you need to watch a video and GO GO GO. DPS and Healers won’t wait for you anymore, just throw everything out and pull packs. That’s a tank’s job these days.

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After every single MDI, I noticed a consistent drop in the quality of the pug tanks.

Ppl watch it and then try to replicate what they’ve seen and fail miserably.
This is why not having to invite a pug tank is usually nr1 prio in our group.

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Funny thing is not even the MDI players always pull it off without wipes.

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This feels more accurate. One of the major reasons tank isn’t played that much is how much responsibility is on them to set the group pace. People in this game do not like to be patient with those trying to learn.

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I do agree that when it comes to certain pulls, you have to be on your a game and playing a tank that can actually handle it. I’m usually extremely solid with my guardian bear. However, there are pulls I will do with my Paladin that I won’t attempt on another tank ever. In fact, I’ve done some that have been absolutely insane that I thought for sure I was going to eat the dust on.

But that one specific tank has the ability to pull five or six packs of things, pop the bubble, pop consecration, pop the hammer, use divine toll, hold all of the aggro, and lay on hands if things get too hairy. It’s the main reason I only play protection spec on paladin. It takes a lot to kill this character or my main Paladin with the 685 item level.

Other tanks just can’t keep up.

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When I’m pugging I use pug strats and when I’m with guildies I can set up pulls in comms.

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I think there’s two different types of situations where DPS pulling more is acceptable: if people talk before or during the dungeon (folks need to stop thinking that everyone becomes mute just because a dungeon is in progress) and communicate what would be good or not, then go for it. But if DPS also just want to speed things up and there’s a clear direction of where you are going because certain mobs has to be pulled, then pulling them early is in general fine.

Worst comes to worse, someone or the entire group wipes. At which point one says “please don’t do that, we died because of it.” I prefer to play as a tank but I have a terrible sense of percentage and usually end up a lil’bit below or above what’s necessary, so if there’s a DPS in the group who have a good idea of percentages I’m just going to be happy that they are better at it than me and I can learn from it instead.

Then there’s people who rage pull but, I don’t pay them much notice. Griefing is griefing and a reportable offense no matter who does it. Which is the only type of pulling that I view as non-acceptable, but… I view griefing in general as non-acceptable no matter which flavour it has. I just don’t view these different types of additional pulls as griefing but rather folks trying to communicate something that they want as a result, I wanna try to make it work in accordance to a faster pace if folks wanna go for that.

I have played various types of competitive PvP games for a very long time and … I know this mentality. Because it is the same mentality as “I’m scared of upsetting other people for doing the correct thing, because others don’t like it if/when it fails.”

The simple reality is that what you do in those situations is report folks who are toxic and move on with your day. Sadly that’s the nature of interacting with random people, whether in person or online. In person when someone is rude you just don’t interact with them further, and online you report them and put them on ignore.

Bad people exist and… they will continue to exist. Doesn’t mean that they get to stick around though.